[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by FlamesAreOne

What kind of value do we think Whitecloud has?

Exactly one Sabres fan would trade Rosen for him lol

[howard_the_duck]

It feels to me, given Sec comment about Whitecloud not being in earlier talks, perhaps that’s the retention cost Vegas had to pay.

I bet how Zayne performs up until the deadline will impact what they do with Whitecloud. A nice insurance policy, but also an easy guy to flip if the kid pushes for more regular ice time.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by YourMother

Some of you must eat pissy corn flakes every morning or something. If you live your lives so negatively I hope you seek professional help sooner than later. This place has been embarrassing for the last week.

Sure mom, whatev

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by bugsy

This is apropos of nothing but ive seen/heard at least two clips where Conroy refers to Whitecloud fighting Knies "the other night" or "a few days ago" but unless my intel is wrong that fight was in March last year? Again not important just weird. Maybe an algorithm thing, Connie getting some old highlights lol.

Connie getting old

[Phil Russell]

Trade return expectations got wildly out of wack in this little online community with a huge amount of speculative social media clickbait. A 1st, a 2nd, a good 4/5 D, and a longshot but improving prospect is a good return for a UFA rental. And yes, LV traded for a rental bcs rental prices were all that they were competing against. They produced the best rental offer.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Whitecloud has zero trade protection / control, and could get a 2nd back? Decent return for a rental IMHO, after further reflection.

[Roko]

They will flip weegs to LD and keep Whitecloud. Then dump Pachal and Hanley.

This team simply must keep the 29 yr old RD that is quite valuable.

[Jay Random]

From Vegas's point of view, this actually is a rental trade – because they knew Andersson wanted to go to free agency anyway and they could have signed him then for nothing.

They're giving up a 1st, a 2nd, and a spare part to upgrade Whitecloud for the rest of this year only. If they hadn't made the trade, they could have signed Andersson in the summer, kept the picks, and still had Whitecloud.

There's no point comparing the deal to the offer Boston had on the table for Andersson with an extension, because the man has every right NOT to sign a contract if he doesn't want to. He talked a lot about ‘what's best for my family’, and some people seem to have thought he meant finding a nice city to live in with good amenities and schools and such. I think he meant just one thing by that: MONEY. I suspect the man would play in Timbuktu and have guerrillas camped in his yard if the money was there. Well, he earned that right.

In the end, the Flames got 584 NHL games and 261 points from the blue line out of a second-round pick, and then got the pick back, plus Whitecloud, a 1st, and a bit piece. I can't manufacture outrage over that. I wish I got that kind of return on all my assets.

By the way, my wife likes the deal because the Flames are adding Whitecloud and she is Cree. It might even be enough to get her to watch games with me now and again. Nothing of value to the rest of you, but there is a segment of the fan base that it makes a difference to.

[Stampede2TheCup]

For everyone saying the team should have traded Ras last deadline, I think pretty much everyone here agrees.

For everyone specifically blaming Conroy for it, how can you really think it was up to him after everything we’ve heard this season?

[SemicolonD]

Sorry if this has been talked about as I can’t go through all 45 pages lol, but just reading the sentiment from first 10 pages or so.

It’s not about the rental return being bad, sure that’s great. It’s the constant inability of Conroy to maximize assets and trade when term is left. People kept shooting down anyone who was vying for a Kadri or Coleman trade saying there’s no need to they have a year left. This is what you get when there’s no term left. So people are not overreacting about it being a bad return as a rental but overall as to what it could have been.

Someone said they lost faith in Conroy, I still have faith if he trades at least one of Coleman or Kadri this year, otherwise it seems like a character flaw where he just can’t do the painful thing when he has good relationships with these players.

Sucks because I’ve enjoyed most of Conroy’s work besides this now pattern of being too accommodating to players. Tough Canadian market blah blah blah, you can still maximize on one of 4-5 assets can you not? Doesn’t always have to be a year beforehand but maybe for once?

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by transplant99

OK I'll bite.....what is it you think would have been a "good" return?

Look at the Carlo trade from last year, a first (currently 12th overall), high end center prospect (Minten) and a 4th.

We have Vegas’ first which is likely to be in the 25-32 range, a 2nd that is highly unlikely to become a first, some throw in 7th round prospect and a 6-7 defenceman.

[sureLoss]

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/whit...to-join-flames

“Excited is an understatement,” said Whitecloud. “Growing up in Manitoba, I watched the Flames, Leafs, Oilers and Canucks and all those teams, and I never envisioned myself playing in the NHL for one.

“Really excited to join the group there and play in an atmosphere where hockey is No. 1,” added Whitecloud, an undrafted player who signed with the Golden Knights in 2018 and is currently playing in his eighth NHL campaign.

The right-handed defenceman has two goals and seven points this season while leading Vegas rearguards with 774:22 in 5-on-5 ice time and 1,031 shifts according to Natural Stat Trick.

He said he sees the Flames as club going in the right direction and he’s looking forward to making an impact.

“I think where the team is going at this juncture,” he answered. “The team has been playing well. I think they have a lot of guys in place that have had really good careers, really good goaltending, good D corps, good forward groups, and playing in that atmosphere; it’s always a tough building to come in and play in Calgary throughout my career.

“I’m excited to be part of that now and make Calgary a continued spot where it’s difficult to come in and play and keep trying to push forward a winning tradition here.”

The day has, obviously, been a ‘whirlwind’ for him since learning of the deal.

“Ya, whirlwind is exactly it,” he agreed. “I found out earlier this afternoon - Pacific time - and just been kind of trying to move along through the day, get back to people, and answering calls and texts like that.

“A lot of people from Calgary have reached out and I'm really excited to join the group up there tomorrow.”

Whietcloud said he won a Cup with current Flames blueliner Brayden Pachal and the duo roomed in the minors together. Pachal reached out today and they chatted and Whitecloud said he ‘is really excited to see him again and get the lay of the land in Calgary.”

In the meantime, he’s power packing to head up here to the C of Red.

“Flight at 8 a.m. tomorrow, so get a lot my stuff packed up and get a few things in order here and say good-bye to a few people and get on the road and hopefully play up there tomorrow night.”

[Tbull8]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Look at the Carlo trade from last year, a first (currently 12th overall), high end center prospect (Minten) and a 4th.

We have Vegas’ first which is likely to be in the 25-32 range, a 2nd that is highly unlikely to become a first, some throw in 7th round prospect and a 6-7 defenceman.

That first is only good for Boston right now because Toronto has been bad this year. If they had Ras instead of Carlo I bet they’re much better

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by SemicolonD

Sorry if this has been talked about as I can’t go through all 45 pages lol, but just reading the sentiment from first 10 pages or so.

It’s not about the rental return being bad, sure that’s great. It’s the constant inability of Conroy to maximize assets and trade when term is left. People kept shooting down anyone who was vying for a Kadri or Coleman trade saying there’s no need to they have a year left. This is what you get when there’s no term left. So people are not overreacting about it being a bad return as a rental but overall as to what it could have been.

Someone said they lost faith in Conroy, I still have faith if he trades at least one of Coleman or Kadri this year, otherwise it seems like a character flaw where he just can’t do the painful thing when he has good relationships with these players.

Sucks because I’ve enjoyed most of Conroy’s work besides this now pattern of being too accommodating to players. Tough Canadian market blah blah blah, you can still maximize on one of 4-5 assets can you not? Doesn’t always have to be a year beforehand but maybe for once?

I am unconvinced that Andersson had more trade value last season than this season. I don't think he played well enough last year to get the kind of return he got now. If anything, I think the gamble Conroy took on Andersson rebounding in a contract year paid off.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by YourMother

Some of you must eat pissy corn flakes every morning or something. If you live your lives so negatively I hope you seek professional help sooner than later. This place has been embarrassing for the last week.

username checks out

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

That first is only good for Boston right now because Toronto has been bad this year. If they had Ras instead of Carlo I bet they’re much better

Remember that could have been our return, but Conroy kept the gang together last trade deadline.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by SemicolonD

Sorry if this has been talked about as I can’t go through all 45 pages lol, but just reading the sentiment from first 10 pages or so.

It’s not about the rental return being bad, sure that’s great. It’s the constant inability of Conroy to maximize assets and trade when term is left.

I think he actually did maximize this asset. A year ago, with the season Andersson was having, nobody was going to give up a 1st, 2nd, and a roster player for him. He could have traded him at the 2024 draft, but that is the time of year when GMs place the highest value on picks and the lowest value on players, so I don't think he'd have got a very good deal then either.

Trading Andersson in a contract year when he's having a career season, I believe, was the right time.

I don't think this bears on Kadri and Coleman at all. Andersson isn't 35 years old, he's not about to fall off a cliff, so the calculation is a bit different. Kadri and Coleman need to be moved soon to get good value, and I believe Conroy is fully aware of that.

The one thing that bugs me is the retention on the Andersson deal, because that leaves room to retain on only one of Kadri or Coleman, not both. That likely means that if (as I hope) one of them gets traded this year before the deadline, the other will probably have to wait until the summer, when the cap goes up and everybody has room to make roster changes.

At least waiting till June will give Kadri the rest of the season to get out of his funk. He's too good a player to keep playing as badly as he has the past few weeks. His trade value will be higher once he can show he's not washed up.

[Brad Marsh]

I voted face plant, and while I actually don't think it's that bad, I can't convince myself it should be higher than Modest Loss.

Trading Andersson to the Knights will almost certainly push the Knights up in the standings, thereby lowering the value of the 2026 1st we already traded for. We literally just traded against ourselves!!! That's such a bizarre play to me.

There was lots of talk about a 1st, a prospect, and a roster player as the expected return. I guess we got that, but the 1st will likely be one of the latest picks available in the first round next year, the roster player is a 29 year-old middle pairing RHD with term, which will almost certainly take ice time away from a developing D, and I hope I'm wrong, but characterizing the prospect as a longshot seems like an understatement.

The Flames did get the extra second rounder. That's a 21% chance for 100 points in the NHL.

Beyond that, Andersson was the team's best hope for that elusive RHS C prospect. Feels like a miss. Maybe a consequence of quantity over quality? But the team had to go quantity if they wanted a 1st round pick and a minute-cruncher coming back on D. Rebiggle.

And for those that rate this trade as expected or higher.....why?

I'm not big on "appeal to authority" - there are lots of smart people here. But I haven't seen a single trade grade that gives the edge to the Flames. I'm with Darren Haynes on this one: Pretty underwhelming.

[Andy83]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Look at the Carlo trade from last year, a first (currently 12th overall), high end center prospect (Minten) and a 4th.

We have Vegas’ first which is likely to be in the 25-32 range, a 2nd that is highly unlikely to become a first, some throw in 7th round prospect and a 6-7 defenceman.

And Carlo had another 2.5 seasons under team control, at the time of the trade, no? Raz turned out to be a rental. Not sure the player, or the circumstances surrounding either deal line up, so not much point in comparing them, IMO anyway.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Brad Marsh

There was lots of talk about a 1st, a prospect, and a roster player as the expected return.

That talk was assuming that Andersson would agree to extend with his new team. I think most people understood that the value for a rental was less.