[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by 5abi

What’s a good return?

Some think he could get a 1st. If he got 2 2nds, or a 2nd and a decent prospect, that would be awesome.

Then the trade is: 1st + 2nd that could be a 1st + 2 2nds plus a flier prospect

How is not a great return for Andersson?

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

The part that irritates me the most is that in order to get the conditional 1st, we are cheering for our Hanifin pick to be worse. Or, if we have this year's pick be better, we don't get the upgraded pick. Either way, we get bent over.

You just gotta let go of the hope that the 2nd is going to turn into a 1st. Vegas is not winning the cup. The tradenis for 1st and 2nd and Whitecloud and throw in

[CFO]

I think white Cloud could command a late first or two 2nds.

[really?]

Originally Posted by landshark

I'm stunned that people are upset with the return - for a rental, I think the flames did really well.

I HATE that it's Vegas that gets him, though...

Personally, I’m not upset with the return for a rental, but rather that he was traded as a rental. He was retained last year to bolster a run at the playoffs. Whiff. The distraction relating to the pending trade certainly didn’t help the start to this season. All in all I think Conroy did good given the situation, but it never should have come to this. Last year’ s deadline was the time to move.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

The part that irritates me the most is that in order to get the conditional 1st, we are cheering for our Hanifin pick to be worse. Or, if we have this year's pick be better, we don't get the upgraded pick. Either way, we get bent over.

True, but remember, our pick last year ended up 32nd, and the Flames still got Potter, who they probably take, even if their pick was 25 or 26

[devo22]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Two first round picks in three straight years. Not a bad way to keep a rebuild going.

4 years, actually.

2024 - Parekh, Gridin
2025 - Reschny, Potter
2026 - CGY, VGK
2027 - CGY, VGK

[mile]

If 35-year old Luke Schenn can return a 2nd and 4th and Soucy can return a 3rd, Whitecloud should be able to get more


A 2nd+ would be a good return

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

So I think the problem with this trade initially is that their isn't a piece to get excited about...I liked the idea of the Leafs 1st from Bruins, I like Poitras a lot, and I think we liked the idea of Danielson.

So this deal not having a piece like that hurts, but the overall value of the deal is fine.

2027 1st - Likely will be late but you never know
2027 2nd that could become a 1st - More ammo in the toolkit and provides protection on the pick the Flames have getting worse this year (would have loved if it was conference finals instead of win cup)
Wiebe - who knows. Feels like a nothing inclusion

But the piece that might be undervalued here is Whitecloud.

How different are Brandon Carlo and Zach Whitecloud? Similar age, both very much physical defensive dmen, similar career offensive numbers (Carlo: 0.18 P/G, Whitecloud: 0.21 P/GP)

With Whitecloud being on a very affordable contract for 2 more seasons, and with the constant need of contenders for RH dman, I'm not certain that he couldn't get another 1st in return.

Dallas would probably love to have him too.

My problem is that I don't have confidence that the Flames will flip Whitecloud. They seem to value having these kind of players on the roster to support younger players.

I actually can't recall a time when the Flames flipped a player in the same season they acquired him.

[Jiri Hrdina]

What do we think the near-term and short-term d pairings are?

Right now:
Whitecloud-Bahl
Weegar-Kuz
Hanley-Bru

And then once Zayne is back do you go
Zayne-Bahl
Weegar-Kuz
Hanley-Whitecloud

Bru likely goes back to the farm to get him maximum playing time.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It does seem like the removal of conditions for a player re-signing has ultimately hurt selling clubs, as it's been replaced by tougher to reach conditions around team success.
I still have never heard the rationale for why that is no longer allowed.

Player reps will argue that a team signing a contract could factor that into the offer (i.em a reduction of leverage) they are willing to make if you had two players that were UFA.

Player 1: $8m/yr + 2nd round pick
Player 2: $8.1m/yr

While the above scenario is unlikely (two players that you like equally much), you can see how the players representation would fight for this (I.e. Player gets paid less because of the condition). You could also see that owners would easily give on this as they would argue that they are managing to a cap and these types of deltas can be managed through other means.

[sureLoss]

Maybe the mystery team that came in with the last minute offer for Andersson was the Kings?

Seravalli on 960 says he heard the Kings were also given permission to talk to Andersson.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

My problem is that I don't have confidence that the Flames will flip Whitecloud. They seem to value having these kind of players on the roster to support younger players.

I actually can't recall a time when the Flames flipped a player in the same season they acquired him.

Honestly even if they commit to do it by next deadline so the player has 2 playoff runs in him then that's fine.

[activeStick]

Hey Sec , are you able to share details on that last minute doozy you heard about last night?

[Displaced Flames fan]

I hate it because its Vegas. Its pretty difficult to make the argument that Conroy didn't get good value. If it wasn't Vegas I'd probably love the trade.

The hate I have for that organization is probably approaching unhealthy at this point

[Tbull8]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Hey Sec , are you able to share details on that last minute doozy you heard about last night?

He said it was Dallas

[Flamescuprun2018]

Originally Posted by really?

Pretty much agree, but does anyone have any confidence the Flames would see it this way? He’s a serviceable player and will be used to keep the boat drifting with the current. If the Flames shared your mindset the Tkachuk deal would have yielded the future we’d be enjoying today. Instead we’re a couple of points from the drain hoping for a playoff appearance.

I hope the team proves me wrong, but history suggests Whitecloud is here for the long haul.

Let's hope not. But understand your perspective. It will depend alot on how Parekh progresses this season.

Would be something if Conroy surprises us and moves Whitecloud at trade deadline for a significant haul. But suspect next year will be earliest such would be contemplated.

Once Coleman and Kadri moved, we shift to Frost/Farabee/Whitecloud as next wave to go for futures once roster spots need to be opened up with prospects pushing.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

So I think the problem with this trade initially is that their isn't a piece to get excited about...I liked the idea of the Leafs 1st from Bruins, I like Poitras a lot, and I think we liked the idea of Danielson.

So this deal not having a piece like that hurts, but the overall value of the deal is fine.

2027 1st - Likely will be late but you never know
2027 2nd that could become a 1st - More ammo in the toolkit and provides protection on the pick the Flames have getting worse this year (would have loved if it was conference finals instead of win cup)
Wiebe - who knows. Feels like a nothing inclusion

But the piece that might be undervalued here is Whitecloud.

How different are Brandon Carlo and Zach Whitecloud? Similar age, both very much physical defensive dmen, similar career offensive numbers (Carlo: 0.18 P/G, Whitecloud: 0.21 P/GP)

With Whitecloud being on a very affordable contract for 2 more seasons, and with the constant need of contenders for RH dman, I'm not certain that he couldn't get another 1st in return.

Dallas would probably love to have him too.

Ya I think Whitecloud is being undervalued given his contract, the term of his contract and how it frees up other cap space for teams.

For a team like Dallas if Lyabushkin comes the other way they save 500K a year, add a year of term and get a better dman. That has value, might be as high as a first round pick.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

I hate it because its Vegas. Its pretty difficult to make the argument that Conroy didn't get good value. If it wasn't Vegas I'd probably love the trade.

The hate I have for that organization is probably approaching unhealthy at this point

Yep, I don't hate the trade return... but I DO hate that it's Vegas.

[Infinit47]

Man, people sure are upset this trade is with Vegas.

The Flames turned a flubbed Baertschi draft into 11 years of Anderson and now this return.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by This post is terrible

What the heck is a Home run loss?

Bo Bichette in game 7 of the WS?