2024-25 Huberdeau - new and improved?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Similarly to Kadri, Huberdeau might be reading the tea leaves with the trade expectations and is figuring out his last few prime Stanley cup winning years are going to be with a rebuilding team.

For him, it’s worse than Kadri cause his contract is untradeable and he knows he can’t produce enough even when going to change that. Tough to play well with that between his ears.

I think I can recall him make 1 good play, he used his size to muscle to the net and...lo and behold...held on to the puck until he was outnumbered and stripped, which happens.

His vaunted 'elite' passing ability is a myth.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

As a GM on another team, when you see a guy putting up 115 points but his team isn't rushing to get a deal done, you should maybe think why. Our wizard GM panics and gets blinded by the point total not looking at the players 1 dimensional game. How do you let a GM who you haven't extended pull the plug on this size of a trade.

The whole braintrust weighed in on the deal. Multiple people involved - Treliving, Conroy, Maloney, Bean - have attested to the discussions around the deals and the direction of the team. There were only a handful of deals on the table, and the Flames brass - almost certainly including Edwards - rejected the rebuild option (which is what the Hurricanes were reportedly offering). That left only two real offers - the Panthers and Blues - and by all accounts the Florida deal was far better.

I know it's a lot easier to scapegoat when you imagine that trades are just two GMs cutting deals on the phone together. They're not. The major decisions the Flames brass have made over the last few years have been collective. And most of the people who made them are still at the helm of the team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The whole braintrust weighed in on the deal. Multiple people involved - Treliving, Conroy, Maloney, Bean - have attested to the discussions around the deals and the direction of the team. There were only a handful of deals on the table, and the Flames brass - almost certainly including Edwards - rejected the rebuild option (which is what the Hurricanes were reportedly offering). That left only two real offers - the Panthers and Blues - and by all accounts the Florida deal was far better.

I know it's a lot easier to scapegoat when you imagine that trades are just two GMs cutting deals on the phone together. They're not. The major decisions the Flames brass have made over the last few years have been collective. And most of the people who made them are still at the helm of the team.

And at the time, they still had a pretty strong D corps, Lindholm, Toffoli, Backlund, Coleman, and 35 goal Mangiapane. Many on long contracts. It's not a shock that a rebuild at that moment was a heavy undertaking.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The whole braintrust weighed in on the deal. Multiple people involved - Treliving, Conroy, Maloney, Bean - have attested to the discussions around the deals and the direction of the team. There were only a handful of deals on the table, and the Flames brass - almost certainly including Edwards - rejected the rebuild option (which is what the Hurricanes were reportedly offering). That left only two real offers - the Panthers and Blues - and by all accounts the Florida deal was far better.

I know it's a lot easier to scapegoat when you imagine that trades are just two GMs cutting deals on the phone together. They're not. The major decisions the Flames brass have made over the last few years have been collective. And most of the people who made them are still at the helm of the team.

I get your overall point, but the front office has had a lot of changes.

Gone are BT, Chris Snow (tragically), and Bean.
IN are Nonis, Hanlon (to a hockey ops role) and Iginla

We've also heard that BT didn't always involve his staff in decisions, and was more of a one man show.

The key for me is what did the team and Conroy specifically learn from some of the errors of past regimes.

But the front office has undergone change.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Locke

I think I can recall him make 1 good play, he used his size to muscle to the net and...lo and behold...held on to the puck until he was outnumbered and stripped, which happens.

His vaunted 'elite' passing ability is a myth.

It isn't a myth - he had near the record (post lockout) for most assists by a winger the year before we got him, and the years before he had 41(55gp), 55(69gp), and 62(82gp). Either we got him at the exact moment his prime ended (off a cliff), he doesn't play well in our system, or the huge contract made him check out mentally... or any other reason you can think of. Who knows what happened. To say Huberdeau was never an elite player with elite playmaking ability is a myth.

[Goriders]

Huberdeau and to an extent Kadri have become inconsequential players in the last month or so. It’s pretty disconcerting.

I’d say Kadri is the bigger surprise.

[Voodooman]

Did Huberdeau have to waive any sort of movement clause for the trade to happen? My biggest issue with this whole deal was how BT basically met him at the airport in the brinks truck, and signed that horrible extension before Huby had ordered room service at the hotel.

You can't debate that the return for Chucky was great on paper, and I was cautiously optimistic about Huby, but I really didn't like offering that deal to a guy who hadn't played a single minute with your team.

So, was that deal already agreed to in order to get Huby to waive his no-move and come here, or was this just another case of the wizard screwing us with his 4D chess?

What was the harm in waiting a few months to see the fit, and then get into the extension?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Voodooman

Did Huberdeau have to waive any sort of movement clause for the trade to happen? My biggest issue with this whole deal was how BT basically met him at the airport in the brinks truck, and signed that horrible extension before Huby had ordered room service at the hotel.

You can't debate that the return for Chucky was great on paper, and I was cautiously optimistic about Huby, but I really didn't like offering that deal to a guy who hadn't played a single minute with your team.

So, was that deal already agreed to in order to get Huby to waive his no-move and come here, or was this just another case of the wizard screwing us with his 4D chess?

What was the harm in waiting a few months to see the fit, and then get into the extension?

In hindsight that'd be a great move. But there were a lot of people here saying "this move looks OK but it only makes sense if you extend Huberdeau NOW".

On NMC - he had a modified one, but I don't recall hearing if Calgary was on the list or anything about a waiver. I actually think the money offered was just what they intended to spend on Gaudreau, and Huberdeau (wisely) said yes.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Voodooman

Did Huberdeau have to waive any sort of movement clause for the trade to happen? My biggest issue with this whole deal was how BT basically met him at the airport in the brinks truck, and signed that horrible extension before Huby had ordered room service at the hotel.

You can't debate that the return for Chucky was great on paper, and I was cautiously optimistic about Huby, but I really didn't like offering that deal to a guy who hadn't played a single minute with your team.

So, was that deal already agreed to in order to get Huby to waive his no-move and come here, or was this just another case of the wizard screwing us with his 4D chess?

What was the harm in waiting a few months to see the fit, and then get into the extension?

I get it from a PR perspective. The Flames just had a star player walk and another that indicated he was going to walk the following year. It's a terrible look for a franchise and that kind of negative impression takes years to correct. Having another high profile player you just acquired doing the same thing would have been a killer. The Flames and Murray Edwards were willing to pay a lot of money to stop the bleed by getting a high profile player to sign on long term.

Thing is, they never should should have put themselves in that position to begin with. Trying to "retool" when star players are turned over rarely works. They should have been more future focused.

It was just bad decision after bad decision all starting with walking Johnny to free agency.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Huberdeau was shocked at the trade which suggests he couldn’t block it

[dirk diggler]

[QUOTE=Voodooman;9624880]Did Huberdeau have to waive any sort of movement clause for the trade to happen? My biggest issue with this whole deal was how BT basically met him at the airport in the brinks truck, and signed that horrible extension before Huby had ordered room service at the hotel.

You can't debate that the return for Chucky was great on paper, and I was cautiously optimistic about Huby, but I really didn't like offering that deal to a guy who hadn't played a single minute with your team.

So, was that deal already agreed to in order to get Huby to waive his no-move and come here, or was this just another case of the wizard screwing us with his 4D chess?

What was the harm in waiting a few months to see the fit, and then get into the extension?[/QUOTE]

Agreed, there was no fear that his value would go up. it was the highest it was ever going to be. contract given to Huberdeau by lame duck GM with no contract going forward. brilliant

[Voodooman]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

In hindsight that'd be a great move. But there were a lot of people here saying "this move looks OK but it only makes sense if you extend Huberdeau NOW".

On NMC - he had a modified one, but I don't recall hearing if Calgary was on the list or anything about a waiver. I actually think the money offered was just what they intended to spend on Gaudreau, and Huberdeau (wisely) said yes.

That's a good perspective, as is what FA said about perception of the franchise. One of the most dominant lines in the league just walked out the door, so you do have to try and make it an attractive destination. And despite all of the upsides to living in Calgary, it's still a hard place to attract free agents. Maybe the building helps with that, time will tell.

It's just a confluence of bad timing, and sadly we got stuck with the worst contact in the league as a result. Huby doesn't look like a guy who cares much about it, as long as the paycheques keep coming, so here we are.

[GioforPM]

[QUOTE=dirk diggler;9625006]

Originally Posted by Voodooman

Did Huberdeau have to waive any sort of movement clause for the trade to happen? My biggest issue with this whole deal was how BT basically met him at the airport in the brinks truck, and signed that horrible extension before Huby had ordered room service at the hotel.

You can't debate that the return for Chucky was great on paper, and I was cautiously optimistic about Huby, but I really didn't like offering that deal to a guy who hadn't played a single minute with your team.

So, was that deal already agreed to in order to get Huby to waive his no-move and come here, or was this just another case of the wizard screwing us with his 4D chess?

What was the harm in waiting a few months to see the fit, and then get into the extension?[/QUOTE]

Agreed, there was no fear that his value would go up. it was the highest it was ever going to be. contract given to Huberdeau by lame duck GM with no contract going forward. brilliant

I think we all agree, especially in hindsight. All I'm saying is that, at the time, even a day ro two after the trade, posters were saying "Why isn't he extended already!!!"

Originally Posted by Voodooman

That's a good perspective, as is what FA said about perception of the franchise. One of the most dominant lines in the league just walked out the door, so you do have to try and make it an attractive destination. And despite all of the upsides to living in Calgary, it's still a hard place to attract free agents. Maybe the building helps with that, time will tell.

It's just a confluence of bad timing, and sadly we got stuck with the worst contact in the league as a result. Huby doesn't look like a guy who cares much about it, as long as the paycheques keep coming, so here we are.

I don't agree about how he looks. I think his effort is usually there, just not effectively a lot of the time. And despite his production slump, his possession stats are good - the same as they've been throughout his career.

[dirk diggler]

[QUOTE=GioforPM;9625039]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

I think we all agree, especially in hindsight. All I'm saying is that, at the time, even a day ro two after the trade, posters were saying "Why isn't he extended already!!!"



I don't agree about how he looks. I think his effort is usually there, just not effectively a lot of the time. And despite his production slump, his possession stats are good - the same as they've been throughout his career.

i acknowledge that i dont know the first thing about analytics but when i hear his posession stats are good, i am perplexed. By the eye test, he looks awful and invisible most times even while getting PP time.

[GioforPM]

[QUOTE=dirk diggler;9625162]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

i acknowledge that i dont know the first thing about analytics but when i hear his posession stats are good, i am perplexed. By the eye test, he looks awful and invisible most times even while getting PP time.

If people look for mistakes and bad plays they will see them. Or good plays for that matter. And the reverse is true - if people think a player sucks they hardly ever notice the good plays (or even the routine ones). But when he's on the ice the puck is in the other end more than his own. It is largely a line driven stat of course. His possession stats are also possibly helped by the fact his defensive play has improved. And his largely sheltered starts this year.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

In hindsight that'd be a great move. But there were a lot of people here saying "this move looks OK but it only makes sense if you extend Huberdeau NOW".

On NMC - he had a modified one, but I don't recall hearing if Calgary was on the list or anything about a waiver. I actually think the money offered was just what they intended to spend on Gaudreau, and Huberdeau (wisely) said yes.

I think they literally just crossed-out 'Gaudreau' and wrote in 'Huberdeau' and that was the extent of the thought they put into it.

[Flamesfan05]

The deal looked good at the time because nobody here knew what kind of player Huberdeau is except his point total

One would expect the wizard knew with all the scouts working for him but he was just a dummy like the rest of us

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

The deal looked good at the time because nobody here knew what kind of player Huberdeau is except his point total

One would expect the wizard knew with all the scouts working for him but he was just a dummy like the rest of us

I suspect that Treliving was working on his exit plan at the time and with one foot already out the door, he was more worried about his own resume and reputation at that point than he was what was best for the Flames in the long term.

[shadowlord]

When I look at replays of Huberdeau in FLA, I seem to notice a lot of scoring plays developing off the rush and frequently with a pass to the trailing player.

For whatever reason, Sutter-hockey, lack of scoring forwards, slow forwards, Calgary doesn't play that style of game. I think that's the biggest reason Huberdeau's point totals have dropped here.

I don't think post-Huberdeau FLA plays that style either anymore, and they've gone on to win 2 Stanley Cups.

But if he does get traded to a team that does play a fast-moving, activate the D off-the-rush style team *before he gets too old, he might get back to point-per-game totals. I don't think it will be with Calgary. And definitely not the style of game Huska wants the team playing.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The key for me is what did the team and Conroy specifically learn from some of the errors of past regimes.

But the front office has undergone change.

Conroy might have learned.

Murray Edwards definitely has not. He's still the owner. So why would you expect different decision making?

https://twitter.com/user/status/2011934879840092422

Like what's the whole point? If the stubborn owner doesn't care then what does what any of us think matter.