[News] Canucks: We are transitioning into a rebuild

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by getbak

If you read this thread, I think you will find that the actions mean nothing if the word is not spoken to cast the magic rebuild spell.

Yep, you can trade the 12th overall pick for a 29 year old mid but as long as you say the word one time after denying it for months you are golden.

[getbak]

Rebuildus Failius Whalius.

[Rhett44]

Why would if matter what the management said? Clearly, there is a large group of people based on this forum, that will blindly defend them no matter what they do or say.

Even after that disaster of an interview by Maloney, many people still think everything is great at the top. They treat the Flames fan base like children, and still get praised.

Just look at the facts more than anything. The last rebuilding type trade was the Markstrom trade 1.5 years ago. In the last year and a half, we have done nothing to indicate we are rebuilding. And shopping Andersson finally does not count, because he is an expiring contract that they are forced to do something about.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Why would if matter what the management said? Clearly, there is a large group of people based on this forum, that will blindly defend them no matter what they do or say.

Even after that disaster of an interview by Maloney, many people still think everything is great at the top. They treat the Flames fan base like children, and still get praised.

Just look at the facts more than anything. The last rebuilding type trade was the Markstrom trade 1.5 years ago. In the last year and a half, we have done nothing to indicate we are rebuilding. And shopping Andersson finally does not count, because he is an expiring contract that they are forced to do something about.

Not spending cap space, or trading any of the aquired firsts, or signing significant UFAs.

Vancouver had their own Maloney interview in November by their actual GM...I have posted it multiple times.

They aren't rebuilding and they arent trading Hughes, his words

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by getbak

If you read this thread, I think you will find that the actions mean nothing if the word is not spoken to cast the magic rebuild spell.

Fans of losing teams think you say the word rebuild and you're on your way to a championship.

Most franchises say it and then rush it to get right back to the mushy middle. But even worse, some teams do it "properly" and it ends with over a decade of miserable failure. For every Pittsburgh, Chicago and Colorado of the late 2000s, early 2010s and late 2010s you have Edmonton, Buffalo and Arizona from that same time that stalled out and went no where.

Unless Aquilini was been clubbed over the head, stuffed into a sack and then locked in a sound-proof closet; we have maybe.... six months of a "rebuild" ahead of us. This franchise has done this twice in the last 8 years. It's netted us an electric play-off run once every four years or so and that seems to be fine for Ownership.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Why would if matter what the management said? Clearly, there is a large group of people based on this forum, that will blindly defend them no matter what they do or say.

Even after that disaster of an interview by Maloney, many people still think everything is great at the top. They treat the Flames fan base like children, and still get praised.

That is a gross misrepresentation of the view opposed to yours, and you know it perfectly well. The ‘disaster of an interview’ doesn't matter to us because we don't give a damn what some old geezer in the executive suite has to say. We care about what the team actually does. Whether Maloney or anyone else uses the word ‘rebuild’ is completely unimportant. What matters is that every move the team has actually made has been in the direction of a rebuild, and every move they could have made to compete immediately, they have refrained from doing. They didn't spend their cap space, they didn't trade away picks or prospects (except in the Frost-Farabee deal, in which the roster actually got younger), and they didn't sign high-priced free agents. Those are facts.

Just look at the facts more than anything. The last rebuilding type trade was the Markstrom trade 1.5 years ago. In the last year and a half, we have done nothing to indicate we are rebuilding. And shopping Andersson finally does not count, because he is an expiring contract that they are forced to do something about.

Are they trading him for help now? No, every indication is that they are trading him for futures. That definitely counts as a rebuilding trade. They could have done it as a hockey trade and got a roster player back. Nothing compels them to ask for a 1st-round pick as the biggest (or any) part of the return, but Conroy has actually said in public that he wants to add another 1st, and the rumoured returns from various teams all appear to include a 1st, a prospect, and NO roster players.

Don't tell people to ‘look at the facts’ when you yourself are persistently ignoring every fact that does not reinforce your views.

It seems to me that this entire argument is not between pro- and anti-rebuild people – there are no anti-rebuild people on CP. It's between people who believe that actions matter more than words, and people who believe that words matter more than actions. I'm surprised you're not an Oiler fan, since there are so many words out there aimed at convincing you that they're the greatest team in the league.

[flame4life]

And this is news ... 2 organizations currently in the bottom five teams of the league standings are in a rebuild ...

I am so glad this was pointed out to me. I though they both were trying.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Trading a 26 year old SUPERSTAR because he forces you to is hardly a rebuilding move

It was though. The Flames traded a 25 year old superstar because he forced them to and they got 2 29 year olds a prospect and a pick. The Canucks traded their superstar for 4 pieces that are all under 24 including 2 pieces that were still considered prospects and 1 pick.

One team made a trade to try and stay relevant and the other targeted pieces to start over. The Canucks realized they couldn’t compete without their superstar the flames thought they could swap 2 superstars out for 1 and still be a top team. End of the day the flames are rebuilding because that plan failed miserably

[Britflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That is a gross misrepresentation of the view opposed to yours, and you know it perfectly well. The ‘disaster of an interview’ doesn't matter to us because we don't give a damn what some old geezer in the executive suite has to say. We care about what the team actually does. Whether Maloney or anyone else uses the word ‘rebuild’ is completely unimportant. What matters is that every move the team has actually made has been in the direction of a rebuild, and every move they could have made to compete immediately, they have refrained from doing. They didn't spend their cap space, they didn't trade away picks or prospects (except in the Frost-Farabee deal, in which the roster actually got younger), and they didn't sign high-priced free agents. Those are facts.



Are they trading him for help now? No, every indication is that they are trading him for futures. That definitely counts as a rebuilding trade. They could have done it as a hockey trade and got a roster player back. Nothing compels them to ask for a 1st-round pick as the biggest (or any) part of the return, but Conroy has actually said in public that he wants to add another 1st, and the rumoured returns from various teams all appear to include a 1st, a prospect, and NO roster players.

Don't tell people to ‘look at the facts’ when you yourself are persistently ignoring every fact that does not reinforce your views.

It seems to me that this entire argument is not between pro- and anti-rebuild people – there are no anti-rebuild people on CP. It's between people who believe that actions matter more than words, and people who believe that words matter more than actions. I'm surprised you're not an Oiler fan, since there are so many words out there aimed at convincing you that they're the greatest team in the league.

But you also have to take into account that most of the recent trades were players wanting out, and in most cases the Flames were still trying to sign them. The team have been forced into this rebuild by the players. Fans are looking for the Flames to admit they have got it wrong and are properly going to commit to a rebuild. It is not surprising that people are getting very frustrated as the Flames have been appallingly managed for almost 30 odd years.

[Jiggy]

The Nucks are trying to sign Sherwood instead of trading him. Is that a rebuild move? So, the Flames should sign Andersson?

[GioforPM]

So Chytyl, Myers, Hollander, Karlsson, are all for sale now?

Seriously, the Canucks couldn’t rebuild if they tried. They signed multiple vets to long term contracts last July 1. Most of them have NMCs.

[Erick Estrada]

They are rebuilding in the sense that they are the worst team in the league and couldn't win if they tried. Flames roster is not very good but the Canucks roster is hands down the worst in the NHL now. Kiefer Sherwood is their best forward for crying out loud.

[Roof-Daddy]

Unreal how badly the canucks bungled up their contention window with this last rebuild.

Bad luck with their stud #1 goalie struggling with injuries, but they had a Norris caliber dman, plus other solid top 4 dmen and were deep down the middle with Petterson, Horvat and Miller.

Love to see it. Just stay the F away from McKenna you bastards.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Unreal how badly the canucks bungled up their contention window with this last rebuild.

Bad luck with their stud #1 goalie struggling with injuries, but they had a Norris caliber dman, plus other solid top 4 dmen and were deep down the middle with Petterson, Horvat and Miller.

Love to see it. Just stay the F away from McKenna you bastards.

Yeah I thought they had all the big pieces.
I still think it all started to fall apart when they moved out Horvat instead of Miller. Horvat wanted to be there and part of the solution. Instead he was shipped out in favor of the other guy who went on to divide the room further.

It was the first step in a series of compounding errors. (we've seen how damaging compounding errors can be around these parts too)

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Why would if matter what the management said? Clearly, there is a large group of people based on this forum, that will blindly defend them no matter what they do or say.

Even after that disaster of an interview by Maloney, many people still think everything is great at the top. They treat the Flames fan base like children, and still get praised.

Just look at the facts more than anything. The last rebuilding type trade was the Markstrom trade 1.5 years ago. In the last year and a half, we have done nothing to indicate we are rebuilding. And shopping Andersson finally does not count, because he is an expiring contract that they are forced to do something about.

I think the Flames did hold for the last 18 months but because they were in a position to do so and didn't really have any pieces to move urgently outside of maybe Andersson.

They were in no pinch point to move any veterans, but also didn't do anything to try to accelerate their contention window (which is generally the mistake teams make).

I've been a proponent of moving Andersson sooner, and think they should have done it at the 2024 draft, but I also understand why a team graduating Dustin Wolf would want to keep him and Weegar as the only options.

Then he had a poor 2024-2025 season so you're proabably selling low if you do move him at the 2025 deadline (and they weren't moving him while close to a playoff position anyways), and I think they did shop him at the 2025 draft but his value was low due to the aforementioned poor season.

So now that window to trade him again opened up because he's having a top 20 season, but the risk is he holds the cards due to the extension talks.

Kadri was never moving sooner...his age and contract required a bit more time and proof he was aging well. Maybe you could have gotten the package Colorado gave up for Nelson and that would have been nice, but rumors were Kadri wasn't open to the trade then. I do think the window is now though and they can't hesitate on this one because I think his play could drop off.

Coleman... with 1 year left and with 2 playoff runs feels like the right time to move a player like that, don't think you would have gotten more value moving him sooner.

And really outside of those 3 there are nobody else that really have the value you'd want to move. Probably better off keeping them and trying to increase value more (somebody like Farabee feels like a good example of a player who's value will go up as the cap increases and his game gets better).

To me the Flames have been rebuilding this whole time, but they were never bottoming out and tanking. And those two things are different.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

“Look at what the flames are doing not what they say”

Oh, you mean nothing. Even if the flames did do something it won’t have anywhere near the return that Hughes got for Vancouver.

The 'rebuild' return tally, so far...

3 1sts (Gridin, Reschny, VGS 26)
2 2nds (Battaglia, Stockselius) 1 2nd traded away
3 3rds (Suniev, Zarubin, 26 VAN)
1 4th (Hoskin)
1 5th (Okhotiuk)
Sharangovich, Miromanov, Bahl, Brzustewicz, Grushnikov, Jurmo, Frost, Farabee

[DJones]

Canucks had been blowing assets for years, with terrible development, and their best player wanted out.

They have 7 players signed for 6+ years and are at the cap and they are still in last place.

Management is trying to save their job by pretending this is intentional

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The 'rebuild' return tally, so far...

3 1sts (Gridin, Reschny, VGS 26)
2 2nds (Battaglia, Stockselius) 1 2nd traded away
3 3rds (Suniev, Zarubin, 26 VAN)
1 4th (Hoskin)
1 5th (Okhotiuk)
Sharangovich, Miromanov, Bahl, Brzustewicz, Grushnikov, Jurmo, Frost, Farabee

Lots of prospects with question marks and depth players. I’d rather Rossi or Buium over every player on your list. The flames lack elite talent, we don’t need more depth. Hopefully Gridin and Reschny excel sooner than later.

[gvitaly]

Hopefully this rebuild goes just as well for the Canucks as the last one:
12 seasons
1 division title
2 playoff series wins
3 playoff appearances
9 seasons without playoffs
6 bottom 10 finishes

Average standings:
20th overall
10th in the West
5th in the Pacific
2nd in NoGood

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Lots of prospects with question marks and depth players. I’d rather Rossi or Buium over every player on your list. The flames lack elite talent, we don’t need more depth. Hopefully Gridin and Reschny excel sooner than later.

Hughes is an elite player, probably the 2nd or 3rd best defender in the league. The Flames didn't and don't have a player available to trade for that kind of return. Unless you wanted to put on a time machine and trade Tkachuk for youth.