Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

^
see?


That's why nothing every changes. Nobody even believes it can be better. So we let these idiots continue to be morons, and here we are.

Ok, let’s hear the solution that everyone else in the free world is missing.

[Fuzz]

Your framing that the entire free world hasn't figured this out is false and the same defeatist do nothing attitude that is exactly why we are where we are.

Spend money. Stop cancelling hospital builds and healthcare facilities. Build senior and home care so they don't waste hospital resources. Stop reorganizing. In general, fund well enough that we aren't running in constant crisis mode. Yes, it will cost a lot of money to fix decades of failure. Yes, we need to.

Listen to experts. Promote preventive care like vaccines and sex ed and basic ####ing #### humanity worked out 50 years ago that is somehow freedom infringing. Don't elect ####ing morons. Don't listen to ####ing morons. And for the last time stop pretending nothing can be done. Gee, why is nothing being done? People like you.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Slava

Ok, let’s hear the solution that everyone else in the free world is missing.

Come on. We watched Kenney give away 1.5 billion dollars for a pipeline that was in the US court system and blocked just 2 weeks later. That's just irresponsible. That money disappeared. The fact that his party won after such a ridiculous waste of money is a pretty good indication as to why things are a disaster in this province.

A couple billion dollars could go a long way in fixing some of our healthcare issues. The government should be working to create more seats in medical schools, and nursing schools etc, as well as making sure they don't treat these workers like absolute garbage so they actually want to be in Alberta. Make sure our operating rooms are running 24/7. This stuff isn't that tricky. Instead we get a government reducing access to vaccines and encouraging moronic behaviour when it comes to public health. This type of completely idiotic thinking costs us all way more in the long run, with more spaces in hospitals being taken up, and more care needed.

If they at least attempted to make things better then I could probably accept it not working, but all they've done is attempt to make things worse so they can sell it off to their friends piece by piece.

[Amethyst]

European countries also have way more doctors per population. Adding a private option without adding more staff just rearranges who gets care. Are there a bunch of doctors (and nurses, and other staff) sitting around doing nothing, who want to work more hours?

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

European countries also have way more doctors per population. Adding a private option without adding more staff just rearranges who gets care. Are there a bunch of doctors (and nurses, and other staff) sitting around doing nothing, who want to work more hours?

The other problem is just adding one element from their system doesn't make our system like theirs. If someone thinks this system works well, then you have to take the whole system and follow similar implementation.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Your framing that the entire free world hasn't figured this out is false and the same defeatist do nothing attitude that is exactly why we are where we are.

Spend money. Stop cancelling hospital builds and healthcare facilities. Build senior and home care so they don't waste hospital resources. Stop reorganizing. In general, fund well enough that we aren't running in constant crisis mode. Yes, it will cost a lot of money to fix decades of failure. Yes, we need to.

Listen to experts. Promote preventive care like vaccines and sex ed and basic ####ing #### humanity worked out 50 years ago that is somehow freedom infringing. Don't elect ####ing morons. Don't listen to ####ing morons. And for the last time stop pretending nothing can be done. Gee, why is nothing being done? People like you.

That's unfortunate, but you have nothing new here. This is just a listing of the issues you have with the current government, and there are no solutions here. I thought that we might have an adult conversation, but apparently not.

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Come on. We watched Kenney give away 1.5 billion dollars for a pipeline that was in the US court system and blocked just 2 weeks later. That's just irresponsible. That money disappeared. The fact that his party won after such a ridiculous waste of money is a pretty good indication as to why things are a disaster in this province.

A couple billion dollars could go a long way in fixing some of our healthcare issues. The government should be working to create more seats in medical schools, and nursing schools etc, as well as making sure they don't treat these workers like absolute garbage so they actually want to be in Alberta. Make sure our operating rooms are running 24/7. This stuff isn't that tricky. Instead we get a government reducing access to vaccines and encouraging moronic behaviour when it comes to public health. This type of completely idiotic thinking costs us all way more in the long run, with more spaces in hospitals being taken up, and more care needed.

If they at least attempted to make things better then I could probably accept it not working, but all they've done is attempt to make things worse so they can sell it off to their friends piece by piece.

Some of this is just unhelpful. Like sure, we should have vaccines and I'm not defending any of the UCP polciies. But to suggest that if we had vaccines readily available that this would be impactful to surgical wait times or people dying in the ER is beyond a stretch. I get it...it's all healthcare, but it's almost entirely unrelated.

And I'm not against the idea of "build more hospitals", but you have to have a way to pay for those ongoing expenses. You build a building for a billion, and then have to staff that for the next 50 years. I think that this is much more complicated. I also get that Kenney spent $1.5b on a pipeline to nowhere, but that was also 5-6 years ago, and at best could've been a one-time injection. Of course, that would be helpful, but it's hardly a great panacea.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Slava

Ok, let’s hear the solution that everyone else in the free world is missing.

Tax like the next least taxed province.

Double education seats in healthcare fields and have very high tuition with forgivable loans with 10 years of work in Canada.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

That's unfortunate, but you have nothing new here. This is just a listing of the issues you have with the current government, and there are no solutions here. I thought that we might have an adult conversation, but apparently not.

Some of this is just unhelpful. Like sure, we should have vaccines and I'm not defending any of the UCP polciies. But to suggest that if we had vaccines readily available that this would be impactful to surgical wait times or people dying in the ER is beyond a stretch. I get it...it's all healthcare, but it's almost entirely unrelated.

And I'm not against the idea of "build more hospitals", but you have to have a way to pay for those ongoing expenses. You build a building for a billion, and then have to staff that for the next 50 years. I think that this is much more complicated. I also get that Kenney spent $1.5b on a pipeline to nowhere, but that was also 5-6 years ago, and at best could've been a one-time injection. Of course, that would be helpful, but it's hardly a great panacea.

What do you mean no solutions? How can you look at what I wrote and say they aren't? And yes, my problems with the UCP govenrment handling of healthcare ARE valid, and not just axe grinding. They ####ing suck at it. The evidence is clear.


That's just bull####. Where would you come up with that idea? of course preventative healthcare like vaccines will reduce pressure on ER's. Fewer really sick people needing care. You get that, right? Am I taking crazy pills? Wait, are you taking crazy pills? Is that why you think my vaccine complaint is just me mad at the UCP? Because you don't see how preventative healthcare prevents healthcare crisis use? You know how vaccines work, right? Birth control? STD prevention?


How do you expect to keep up with population growth if you don't build and staff facilities? Yes, it costs money. Holy #### man, your defeatism is worse than I thought. How is it we built and staffed a new Cancer Centre and the South Health Campus if these things are just not possible? You plan and you do it.


I would like to thank you though. You provide an excellent example of the type of person who is reasonable, educated, generally seem capable and competent, but perpetuates the problem with a lack of knowledge, understanding, curiosity, and willingness to acknowledge things can and should be better, by pretending nothing can be done.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

What do you mean no solutions? How can you look at what I wrote and say they aren't? And yes, my problems with the UCP govenrment handling of healthcare ARE valid, and not just axe grinding. They ####ing suck at it. The evidence is clear.


That's just bull####. Where would you come up with that idea? of course preventative healthcare like vaccines will reduce pressure on ER's. Fewer really sick people needing care. You get that, right? Am I taking crazy pills? Wait, are you taking crazy pills? Is that why you think my vaccine complaint is just me mad at the UCP? Because you don't see how preventative healthcare prevents healthcare crisis use? You know how vaccines work, right? Birth control? STD prevention?


How do you expect to keep up with population growth if you don't build and staff facilities? Yes, it costs money. Holy #### man, your defeatism is worse than I thought. How is it we built and staffed a new Cancer Centre and the South Health Campus if these things are just not possible? You plan and you do it.


I would like to thank you though. You provide an excellent example of the type of person who is reasonable, educated, generally seem capable and competent, but perpetuates the problem with a lack of knowledge, understanding, curiosity, and willingness to acknowledge things can and should be better, by pretending nothing can be done.

The reason I make that comment about vaccines is that these issues with ER wait times or surgical wait times aren't new. This didn't arise in the past few years of Danielle Smith. This isn't a "since the pandemic" problem, where the real issues of antivax sentiment came up.

And yes, almost everything you listed is just the usual anti-UCP stuff you post every day. I find the whole thing amusing because, if you put my voting history beside yours, they're basically indistinguishable (I'm guessing). So, when you make the "people like you" comments, they're just funny.

And, to be honest, I don't have the answers to fix healthcare. I readily admit that, and you saying that there's a lack of knowledge on that front isn't the slam-dunk you seem to think it is. The difference is, I admit that I don't know this, and I don't believe that this is easy, rather than just taking shots at people or trying to make this seem simple and easy - if only everyone else wasn't so stupid.

[Amethyst]

The answer to fix healthcare is to spend more money. We build facilities, we hire staff, we pay for and provide preventative care. But too many people don't care because they (currently) have enough money that they think they are safe from what's happening. But as the gap between wealthy and everyone else increases, society crumbles and we all suffer. And that is a dangerous situation to be in. That moment is coming faster than a lot of people think.

[Fuzz]

The preventive healthcare stuff is making it worse. That's new with Smith because it's an additional pressure we did not need and can not handle. This isn't me saying stuff, it's backed by healthcare professionals.

On Wednesday, Alberta Medical Association president Dr. Brian Wirzba issued a statement that contained an AMA analysis of the cost of the province’s low-immunization policy.

"If only five per cent of Albertans are deterred from getting vaccinated, the projected additional health-care costs exceed $65 million in hospitalization costs alone," the letter states. "This far surpasses any savings the province might achieve through spending less on vaccines or minimizing wastage."

https://thetyee.ca/News/2025/10/27/W...h-Care-Crisis/

You can dismiss it as me being mad at the UCP, or you can recognize it's a reality. Those healthcare costs also come with usage of our system, which makes wait times worse. These are just simple facts. Also lots of good solutions and discussion in that article. Good read if you care to see it.

I wasn't referring to your voting history, I was referring to your shoulder shrug. Not all "you people" comments refer to their colours.

I'm not saying it's easy, I'm saying it's possible with the right people and investment.

[powderjunkie]

Since Alberta has the youngest population demographics in the country it is beyond shameful that we aren't way ahead of all other provinces in every healthcare category.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Slava

That's unfortunate, but you have nothing new here. This is just a listing of the issues you have with the current government, and there are no solutions here. I thought that we might have an adult conversation, but apparently not.



Some of this is just unhelpful. Like sure, we should have vaccines and I'm not defending any of the UCP polciies. But to suggest that if we had vaccines readily available that this would be impactful to surgical wait times or people dying in the ER is beyond a stretch. I get it...it's all healthcare, but it's almost entirely unrelated.

And I'm not against the idea of "build more hospitals", but you have to have a way to pay for those ongoing expenses. You build a building for a billion, and then have to staff that for the next 50 years. I think that this is much more complicated. I also get that Kenney spent $1.5b on a pipeline to nowhere, but that was also 5-6 years ago, and at best could've been a one-time injection. Of course, that would be helpful, but it's hardly a great panacea.

The unhelpful part is looking individual issues and saying yeah but that's not the problem. All the of those things add up. So does treating healthcare workers like garbage, there are a lot of small problems that add up. Those examples are all part of the problem. Five or six years ago we had a shortage of physicians. I'm married to a physician and I couldn't find a family physician for years. We could have used that 1.5 billion to create more doctors, nurses, bring more in from overseas and build more medical facilities. I knew this was an issue 5 or 6 years ago and so did our leaders.The longer you kick the can down the road the more expensive it gets.

If people have to wait a year to get a surgery we're still paying for it in a year. In the meantime that person may be off work for a longer period of time, and contributing less. We're paying for it regardless, no one is suggesting having hospitals that are empty. Staff them at appropriate levels. I know that paying nurses crazy amounts of overtime isn't cost effective either.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You can dismiss it as me being mad at the UCP, or you can recognize it's a reality. Those healthcare costs also come with usage of our system, which makes wait times worse. These are just simple facts. Also lots of good solutions and discussion in that article. Good read if you care to see it.

I wasn't referring to your voting history, I was referring to your shoulder shrug. Not all "you people" comments refer to their colours.

I'm not saying it's easy, I'm saying it's possible with the right people and investment.

In other words, your solutions are non-actionable under the current political regime, which makes them functionally irrelevant in the short term.

Solutions that require a different government, a different fiscal posture, or a different electorate do not answer the fundamental question: what changes anything tomorrow, next month, or at any point within this government's tenure? What are actionable ideas under a government that shows sustained hostility toward our healthcare? I think the most honest answer is that there are none beyond mitigation and laying the political groundwork for ousting the UCP at the next opportunity. You get the right people in place and sufficient investment commitment, your proposed solutions are likely their marching orders, but at the moment it's the shopping list for a grocery store that doesn't exist.

Every conversation about this can't keep collapsing into "everything is broken and everyone who doesn't sufficiently agree with me is the problem". I really don't know how fervently screaming at Slava to agree even more than he already does fixes anything, unless it's like The Secret, except instead of manifesting success, you attempt to manifest policy change by shouting very loudly into a very small, already sympathetic universe.

If I'd have known, I'd have started yelling at him sooner.

[Fuzz]

Maybe if more people had yelled sooner, we wouldn't have had a second Smith government to find out. Working to prevent the third.


When someone says "there is nothing to be done" and it's just left at that, that's what people think. When you tell them what can be done, and they say you didn't suggest anything, it becomes obvious they either don't understand or don't care enough. Unfortunately, that's the problem. I'm not convinced "not talking about it" is the solution.


It's also not that everything is broken. They are working towards that, but there are still plenty of good, smart people in the system, we have some good infrastructure, we have super committed(for some baffling reason) workers. What is broken are the politicians in charge. As you point out, changing that is the only option. So let's change it.

[puffnstuff]

Wouldnt it be nice if enough of the recall petitions worked to remove UCP mlas...

[TorqueDog]

Rage that does not translate into votes, organization, recalls, or discipline just creates fatigue. There is nothing structural that can be fixed under this government. That does not mean 'do nothing', it means mitigation inside the system and political work outside of it. Those are very different activities than browbeating people who already oppose the UCP.

I agree with your last paragraph almost entirely. The system is not irredeemable, and the people in it are carrying an enormous amount of dysfunction on their backs and making the best of it. They're the 'mitigation' I'm talking about, that's really all we've got to rely on inside the system.

[indes]

I had to go to the hospital for the first time in a year (severe gallbladder attack) and it was way worse than the last time I went. Didn't have a real bed - just a gurney, they forgot to check me in after they put my IV in so I had to go up 45 minutes later to see when they were coming since there was no nurse call button in my room. I was asked if I would settle for a CT instead of an ultrasound because there was a 48h wait on ultrasound techs. I was hypertensive in the room for almost 2 hours before I got some morphine and then I didn't see a nurse again for another 2 hours. I did the CT and then was discharged after the results came in that my gallbladder wasn't inflamed enough to need to be removed. So I left the hospital with hypertension and the same 9/10 pain I had when I came in 8 hours earlier.

2 years ago when I went in for the same thing they put me on a banana bag, morphine, got me an ultrasound all within 2 hours. Then they put me on a morphine drip and let me sleep off the extreme pain. Once I woke up we went over the diagnosis and options.

Pretty stark difference this time.

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by indes

I had to go to the hospital for the first time in a year (severe gallbladder attack) and it was way worse than the last time I went. Didn't have a real bed - just a gurney, they forgot to check me in after they put my IV in so I had to go up 45 minutes later to see when they were coming since there was no nurse call button in my room. I was asked if I would settle for a CT instead of an ultrasound because there was a 48h wait on ultrasound techs. I was hypertensive in the room for almost 2 hours before I got some morphine and then I didn't see a nurse again for another 2 hours. I did the CT and then was discharged after the results came in that my gallbladder wasn't inflamed enough to need to be removed. So I left the hospital with hypertension and the same 9/10 pain I had when I came in 8 hours earlier.

2 years ago when I went in for the same thing they put me on a banana bag, morphine, got me an ultrasound all within 2 hours. Then they put me on a morphine drip and let me sleep off the extreme pain. Once I woke up we went over the diagnosis and options.

Pretty stark difference this time.

Man I was never given anything for my gallbladder attacks, so count yourself lucky. Still that sucks for you, it is so intense and painful. So glad that thing is gone, that surgery changed my life for the better. Good luck.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Slava

That's unfortunate, but you have nothing new here. This is just a listing of the issues you have with the current government, and there are no solutions here. I thought that we might have an adult conversation, but apparently not.


.

Truer words have never been posted.