Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[powderjunkie]

But just think about how great it would be to set up our own foreign service and grift ambassador appointments to a bunch of deplorable ######bags. Did I say grift? Oops, I meant grift.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

I actually think it is,yes. Are you arguing for an unlimited speed limit since if you keep increasing it that must be better too right?

That’s just it isn’t it. Without a baseline for acceptable risk level this conversation is just about a few kms each way. We have greatly improved vehicle safety since the 1990s and haven’t adjusted speed limits. We’re speed limits too high then?

What rational do you have that today is the right trade off? You are clearly with your position are willing to put lives at risk for 10-15 minutes of travel time.

My issue isn’t so much of what is the right speed limit it’s the position you are taking that people advocating higher limits are trading lives for convenience when your current position trades lives for convenience.

So until we can agree on acceptable rates / km there isn’t really a way of having this discussion. Perhaps if the average individual saves more time in travel then on average is lost due to fatalities then it’s good policy. (I suspect this would allow way more dangerous roads)

I als add that the goldilocks fallacy is present in most political arguments which puts a higher burden on the person advocating change because of the underlying assumption that the status quo is correct. This has very negative affects on things like taxation and spending policies and debates.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

It's almost like traffic safety is a complex topic informed by a lot more than a country's maximum speed limit.

This is basically what I have been saying. The statement that lower speed limits reduce harm is not a factual statement.

In terms of the BC study I haven't read it yet.

The Urban study, I have specifically been talking about highways because that is the issue at hand, and I think that pedestrians and congestion add a wrinkle to the severity risk that changes things a lot.

As for the AAA study, this is the same study that cherry picked a single jurisdiction over a favorable 6 year span, and if you zoom out in that same location over 40 years there were multiple speed changes up and down, and the effect basically disappears showing a steady downward trend over time. (I kind of assume you would find the same thing with a careful look at the BC study).

If we want to go conclusion shopping, we all have access to AI now, so I can post some studies, I think I mentioned before I am leaning on the solomon curve earlier,. It's about the substance of data, and the data shows a general downward trend with generally better safety features in vehicles and driving habits, and speed limits not being a variable in that trend.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20838142/
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publication...7084/97084.pdf
https://www.accessmagazine.org/wp-co...save-lives.pdf

[puffnstuff]

This story is wild. I wonder who is paying these clowns...and why they seem worried about testimony in a government corruption scandal.

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...lous-testimony

Former AHS board member claims podcasters paid to smear him ahead of Mentzelopoulos testimony

'Mr. Edmonstone has been targeted in an apparent campaign to attack, punish, embarrass, in other words, discredit Mr. Edmonstone before he can give that testimony'

[Charcot]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

This story is wild. I wonder who is paying these clowns...and why they seem worried about testimony in a government corruption scandal.

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...lous-testimony

Former AHS board member claims podcasters paid to smear him ahead of Mentzelopoulos testimony

'Mr. Edmonstone has been targeted in an apparent campaign to attack, punish, embarrass, in other words, discredit Mr. Edmonstone before he can give that testimony'

One of these guys is the same person who at the behest of others, tried to induce Nenshi to take a bribe- presumable for political opposition information. Seems like he fancies himself as a maple syrup Roger Stone. Perhaps he has a tattoo of Preston Manning on his back.

[Fuzz]

A Edmonton family is grieving after 44-year-old Prashant Sreekumar died in waiting to see a doctor in emergency. The father of three went to the Grey Nuns Hospital with chest pains, waiting hours for care that ultimately came too late.

https://globalnews.ca/news/11590698/...cy-room-death/


This family scored the UCP Christmas Prize.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://globalnews.ca/news/11590698/...cy-room-death/


This family scored the UCP Christmas Prize.

Health care and Education need more money.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Health care and Education need more money.

No, they need to be broken into small pieces and privatized so people can make money off of the dying, instead of it going to waste like this guy. Not one shareholder got value out of this death. Tragic.


In a fair system he could have bid on treatment slots like a WestJet seat lottery, and with enough money bought himself life. Instead we don't allow that, so he died.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

No, they need to be broken into small pieces and privatized so people can make money off of the dying, instead of it going to waste like this guy. Not one shareholder got value out of this death. Tragic.


In a fair system he could have bid on treatment slots like a WestJet seat lottery, and with enough money bought himself life. Instead we don't allow that, so he died.

The problem's with the healthcare system in Alberta and elsewhere in Canada are also very complex but then also simplified down the basics of just money and not enough of it for everybody top and down.

We know hospitals and ER's are really overwhelmed now and they shouldn't be. This poor guy was probably coded as urgent but so were maybe dozens of others at the same time with a lack of ER beds. This is one tragic example of a system that is crashing across the country under a load it's not designed for.

Everybody has completely different expectations of what various aspects of the healthcare system should be providing. If you talk to healthcare workers and they are honest, it becomes an eye opener. How do we best allocate resources, who pays more, who pays less, what is reasonable expectations for government healthcare, how much should family income be taken into account, at what role does family obligations come into play vs what the government provides?

If we take some of the politics out and have hard conversations with Canadians, maybe we get some answers. Should we be paying eye surgeons $5k for cataract surgeries that take 20 minutes but family medicine get's $50 ? Ophthalmologists and Radiologists are the highest paid in AB I believe and those payments were done at the time when technique and technology meant that work took a long time to perform, now not so much. How would they react to a significant cut in pay to better allocate dollars to the front?

What role should we as a society take in caring for our elderly? I would suspect a healthy amount of people in long term care could benefit from living with family and being helped. Some people want to do dinner and travel to Paris as opposed to help dad off the toilet and bathe mom. Some people want to protect inheritance and go cheap as opposed to putting parents in a top notch, $12k a month facility. It's the government's responsibility to look after the elderly they say.

I will admit I am not a fan of what the UCP is looking at doing with healthcare but I also don't think things have been functioning well at all before this. I also don't think AB is unique, everywhere is dealing with the exact same issues across Canada.

[Slava]

^ some of that just makes it sound as though you haven’t dealt with an aging parent yet. It’s not a decision to just fly off to Paris or deal with dad. The reality is that people in long-term care need care constantly. When my mom was in LTC, it was very stressful and it was an enormous burden. We visited constantly and there was no way we could’ve cared for my mom at our home.

I do think that the “warehousing” of our seniors as they wait to die, is terrible and questionable. But, I’m not sure what the solution is. Long term care is essentially a glorified hospital, and there is a lot of care provided there.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Slava

^ some of that just makes it sound as though you haven’t dealt with an aging parent yet. It’s not a decision to just fly off to Paris or deal with dad. The reality is that people in long-term care need care constantly. When my mom was in LTC, it was very stressful and it was an enormous burden. We visited constantly and there was no way we could’ve cared for my mom at our home.

I do think that the “warehousing” of our seniors as they wait to die, is terrible and questionable. But, I’m not sure what the solution is. Long term care is essentially a glorified hospital, and there is a lot of care provided there.

Trust me I do deal with aging parents although they are not what I described earlier. If and when they get there, I will try whatever I have to do keep them out of LTC. Some people need to be there 100% but some people just need assistance with basic tasks and some light housework yet their children just warehouse them like you say. A mom can have 10 children but sometimes 10 children can't look after one mom is an old expression.


I see stark differences between friends of mine with regards to care for parents/grandparents. Some think that home care nurses are maids or LTC workers when they are not. Others simply say they can't live with their parents after moving out at 18 and just put them in a home. A little help can go a long way.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Trust me I do deal with aging parents although they are not what I described earlier. If and when they get there, I will try whatever I have to do keep them out of LTC. Some people need to be there 100% but some people just need assistance with basic tasks and some light housework yet their children just warehouse them like you say. A mom can have 10 children but sometimes 10 children can't look after one mom is an old expression.


I see stark differences between friends of mine with regards to care for parents/grandparents. Some think that home care nurses are maids or LTC workers when they are not. Others simply say they can't live with their parents after moving out at 18 and just put them in a home. A little help can go a long way.

This just doesn’t happen the way you think it does. It’s possible that someone is doing this with their parents, but the unfortunate reality is that people end up in LTC because it’s no longer safe for them to be in their own or in their current situation. It’s not kids putting their parents there because they don’t want to help them. Its parents who fall continuously and need to have 911 called time and time again, or they have a loss of cognitive function so they don’t know how to do things on their own.

You might not be there yet, but these people need more than just a little bit of homecare. They need someone there 24/7, and as their activities of daily living become increasingly difficult (it only goes one way), they need constant care and supervision. Eating, dressing, toileting and in many cases feeding themselves. It’s not just a little thing here or there, and it’s much more difficult than just helping Grandpa get a coffee or whatever.

I think you’re oversimplifying this and making it sound as though kids are putting their parents in these facilities so they can jetset and hangout. That’s so far from the case. The chronology I’ve been through twice is that elderly people think they’ll live on their own forever. They end up in the hospital and the situation they’re living in is no longer possible due to safety and well-being issues, so the hospital (and professionals there) make the decision that their next stop is a long-term care facility. It’s not debatable, unless you have both the capacity and setup (like the physical setup in your home) to care for an elderly person.

Anyway, tldr; this kind of attitude reminds of people talking about people abusing social services in general. I’m sure it happens, but it’s not the glamorous, incredible grift it gets made out to be. Probably for 99% of the cases it’s people in those situations who wish it wasn’t so.

[Amethyst]

Global News needs to stop saying, a provincial panel is recommending an Alberta police force, as if this is some neutral panel. Alberta Next was set up to get the answers the UCP wanted and if anyone dared to question or disagree, Bruce McAllister had turned off their mics and had them thrown out.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Slava

This just doesn’t happen the way you think it does. It’s possible that someone is doing this with their parents, but the unfortunate reality is that people end up in LTC because it’s no longer safe for them to be in their own or in their current situation. It’s not kids putting their parents there because they don’t want to help them. Its parents who fall continuously and need to have 911 called time and time again, or they have a loss of cognitive function so they don’t know how to do things on their own.

You might not be there yet, but these people need more than just a little bit of homecare. They need someone there 24/7, and as their activities of daily living become increasingly difficult (it only goes one way), they need constant care and supervision. Eating, dressing, toileting and in many cases feeding themselves. It’s not just a little thing here or there, and it’s much more difficult than just helping Grandpa get a coffee or whatever.

I think you’re oversimplifying this and making it sound as though kids are putting their parents in these facilities so they can jetset and hangout. That’s so far from the case. The chronology I’ve been through twice is that elderly people think they’ll live on their own forever. They end up in the hospital and the situation they’re living in is no longer possible due to safety and well-being issues, so the hospital (and professionals there) make the decision that their next stop is a long-term care facility. It’s not debatable, unless you have both the capacity and setup (like the physical setup in your home) to care for an elderly person.

Anyway, tldr; this kind of attitude reminds of people talking about people abusing social services in general. I’m sure it happens, but it’s not the glamorous, incredible grift it gets made out to be. Probably for 99% of the cases it’s people in those situations who wish it wasn’t so.

You have to remember that everyone curves hangs out with are the worst people you can imagine. They’re all abusive, they all scam every system, they’re all lazy and don’t know how to do anything, they’re all both rich and poor at the same time and blow their money on all the worst things, and they’re all at the top level of every profession or sitting politicians.

According to the stories, anyway.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You have to remember that everyone curves hangs out with are the worst people you can imagine. They’re all abusive, they all scam every system, they’re all lazy and don’t know how to do anything, they’re all both rich and poor at the same time and blow their money on all the worst things, and they’re all at the top level of every profession or sitting politicians.

According to the stories, anyway.

I think if he just knows one single UCP MLA then that actually covers all of the above.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Slava

This just doesn’t happen the way you think it does. It’s possible that someone is doing this with their parents, but the unfortunate reality is that people end up in LTC because it’s no longer safe for them to be in their own or in their current situation. It’s not kids putting their parents there because they don’t want to help them. Its parents who fall continuously and need to have 911 called time and time again, or they have a loss of cognitive function so they don’t know how to do things on their own.

You might not be there yet, but these people need more than just a little bit of homecare. They need someone there 24/7, and as their activities of daily living become increasingly difficult (it only goes one way), they need constant care and supervision. Eating, dressing, toileting and in many cases feeding themselves. It’s not just a little thing here or there, and it’s much more difficult than just helping Grandpa get a coffee or whatever.

I think you’re oversimplifying this and making it sound as though kids are putting their parents in these facilities so they can jetset and hangout. That’s so far from the case. The chronology I’ve been through twice is that elderly people think they’ll live on their own forever. They end up in the hospital and the situation they’re living in is no longer possible due to safety and well-being issues, so the hospital (and professionals there) make the decision that their next stop is a long-term care facility. It’s not debatable, unless you have both the capacity and setup (like the physical setup in your home) to care for an elderly person.

Anyway, tldr; this kind of attitude reminds of people talking about people abusing social services in general. I’m sure it happens, but it’s not the glamorous, incredible grift it gets made out to be. Probably for 99% of the cases it’s people in those situations who wish it wasn’t so.

We can agree to disagree. I fully agree that a lot of people need to be in LTC and that's totally understandable. Even within the LTC model there is a different standard of care provided by relatives and family members, some people just leave things for the staff. The bottom line is that some people just look after the elderly in significantly different ways. Some of it is cultural and some of it a variety of other things such as income, duty and practicality.

In areas of Calgary with significantly higher concentration of multi generational homes, looking after the elderly and the elderly looking after the children is just what happens. Childcare and LTC are a last resort, Some relationships and marriages require a conversation about having parents, grandparents move in. Others it's not even a topic of discussion. I am just saying that the people who complain about their mother or mother in law coming to visit for a week once a year are probably the people who nudge or really want to put people in LTC as opposed to keeping them at home or housing them as long as possible.

[iggy_oi]

It’s as if curves is unaware that some people choose to live in assisted living voluntarily or that some people take care of their parents by having them move in with them only because they can’t actually afford long term care.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Trust me I do deal with aging parents although they are not what I described earlier. If and when they get there, I will try whatever I have to do keep them out of LTC. Some people need to be there 100% but some people just need assistance with basic tasks and some light housework yet their children just warehouse them like you say.

In order for a senior to qualify for subsidized long-term care, they need to meet criteria of needs assessed by Transitional Services. If a senior does not meet those criteria, the family can pay out of pocket for a care home. And a great many do just that. But public health dollars are not being provided for low-needs seniors to live in long-term care facilities.

Same thing with home care. The needs of a senior are assessed, and the level of care provided by the government will be based on those needs. People are free to spend their own money for more care.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://globalnews.ca/news/11590698/...cy-room-death/

This family scored the UCP Christmas Prize.

Good thread here from a HCW on why this happened, and will continue to get worse. A couple key points:

AB made some massive improvements from 2010-16, added surge spaces and protocols… but guess what… we have 500,000 more pts in EDMZ and NO ADDED BEDS… EIPs and capacity issues are even worse now.
Surge capacity is ALL GONE.

Despite this situation: the Premier cancelled the only new Adult hospital build that was planned in EDM, and govt has since made a bunch of announcements, but there will be NO NEW CAPACITY for 10yrs at best (maybe a new Peds hospital in 2035???)

When the "nothing can be done" and "it's just as bad everywhere else in Canada" folks shrug their shoulders, they ignore this loss of capacity due to population growth and the moronic decisions to cancel additional hospitals to catch up. Do they think population is going to decline, or just not care because "tax dollars"?

You should be thanking the NDP every day for getting Calgary a new Cancer Centre, which prevented a loss of capacity at the South Health Campus, and opened more space at the Foothills. The NDP proved things can be done. We had a flash of actual common sense, before stupidity and greed grabbed the reigns again.

Maybe when your loved one dies like this you might wake up and recognize doing the same idiotic things over and over is not just the way the world works, it's the result of electing stupid people who don't give a #### about you and your family. It doesn't need to be like this. Merry Christmas.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Good thread here from a HCW on why this happened, and will continue to get worse. A couple key points:





When the "nothing can be done" and "it's just as bad everywhere else in Canada" folks shrug their shoulders, they ignore this loss of capacity due to population growth and the moronic decisions to cancel additional hospitals to catch up. Do they think population is going to decline, or just not care because "tax dollars"?

You should be thanking the NDP every day for getting Calgary a new Cancer Centre, which prevented a loss of capacity at the South Health Campus, and opened more space at the Foothills. The NDP proved things can be done. We had a flash of actual common sense, before stupidity and greed grabbed the reigns again.

Maybe when your loved one dies like this you might wake up and recognize doing the same idiotic things over and over is not just the way the world works, it's the result of electing stupid people who don't give a #### about you and your family. It doesn't need to be like this. Merry Christmas.

You may have gotten the wrong point, I am not suggesting nothing can be done, a ton of things can be done but we are all governed by people in this country who are beyond morons. UCP, Feds and other provinces included.

I watch a ton of news and every month there is so sad story of another unlucky bastard who died in a waiting room in Canada that could have been prevented. Every single province all the time and that is just the dead. If you can name a single province, area of a province or specific healthcare region of a province that is really meeting targets for any sort of ER wait times, surgeries, access to specialty diagnostic equipment and more, then I am sure AB and the UCP could emulate them. We as a country can't if we are being honest. We just can't, its a crisis across the country if we are being honest. Virtually every province has a mountain of surgeries and treatments that are way passed medically acceptable wait times.

The provinces asked the Trudeau feds for $400 billion extra as a bare minimum to try and get their hands around things post Covid. Feds came back with a pathetic $40 billion over 10 years, so effective peanuts and brushed aside the request. I know I know, healthcare is a provincial responsibility but actually wtf? How broke are we in this country and why are we allowing mass levels of immigration when we all know we have a healthcare system and an aging population and can't sustain basic services.

F*** the UCP, who cares, execute them for all anybody cares but don't sit here and sell us nonsense that healthcare in Canada is something for us to be exporting to the world.