[GDT] Calgary Flames at Nashville Predators 6pm TV: SNW, FDSO - RADIO SN960

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The start of the year was awful, and has sewered the season for the club. But IMO Flames are a team that can play NHL .500 or better the rest of the way.

Which likely means we end up 5-15th, and not in that 1-4 draft position.

This is where management needs to intervene and maximize the season. Trade before Christmas! I hope Raz's play gets a Conroy an offer he can action prior to the freeze.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Table 5

You can, but history has shown that to be fairly low-percentage way to actually win a cup.

Like I said, you can cheer in whatever fashion you want, as there are no guarantees of success either way... but personally I'd rather play the better odds for winning the whole thing, than to hope to be an outlier.

I'm not arguing that.

I'm saying you can watch a game and cheer for your team to win it because winning is more fun than losing and you know you're not going to see many wins anyway. And that's ok because the team could use a high draft pick.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Plenty of people say it’s wrong.

Here’s a fun thing: it’s possible to cheer for and enjoy wins, which are objectively better and more fun than losses, while recognizing the value of a loss. You don’t have to cheer for a loss or even want them for the team to draft high.

The worst team in the league gets anywhere from 19-29 wins each full season over the last decade or so. Seems a bit “brain dead” to not enjoy such a rare treat.

Would they jump out of windows like the people during the Wall Street crash if they got their way cheering towards an 0-82 season only to lose both lotteries and draft 3rd?

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Inferno

I'm not arguing that.

I'm saying you can watch a game and cheer for your team to win it because winning is more fun than losing and you know you're not going to see many wins anyway. And that's ok because the team could use a high draft pick.

Sure, but when it comes to draft picks, there is a material difference between what you get as a "not many wins" team, and what you get for being a true bottom feeder. I want a Top 3 pick because that's what give you the best odds of getting elite talent.

Btw, I'm having fun. Reading about high end draft picks and envisioning a scenario where we could actually be relevant is fun.

[dino7c]

Hockey needs to change the draft system..sports in general really. Even lottery but weighted on where you have picked in the past.

Pay $200 for a ticket but your team is better off losing. Its even worse when you try to explain it to a kid or a new fan. Goes against everything sports should be about.

[Rhett44]

I wonder what Wolf is thinking not being given a chance to redeem himself after his last start.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

A loss tonight would be an early Christmas gift.

It's a great day for Flames hockey.

Also, this run of Cooley...as a point of criticism, is just the coaching staff chasing a win without a larger view of a 'plan'.

I still think it's silly to not have a 'plan' at that level. I don't think coaching with a day-to-day perspective is how coaches grow with a team - but I know it's how hockey teams operate, and it's why you see coaches treated like a disposable paper cup. It's definitely an opinion held, seemingly, NHL-wide, so not a Flames problem - but something that I think is just done incorrectly.

Important to remember that coaches and players don't tank. Management strategically tanks by removing good players and filling the ranks with young guys or character veterans past their primes.

Coaches and pro athletes are not like normal people like me and you. They are wired to go through a wall to win. They don't understand letting up or playing half ass.

It's like trying to make a racehorse stand still while he watches other horses race. You just can't do it.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Hockey needs to change the draft system..sports in general really. Even lottery but weighted on where you have picked in the past.

Pay $200 for a ticket but your team is better off losing. Its even worse when you try to explain it to a kid or a new fan. Goes against everything sports should be about.

I agree. But until that happens, it's unwise to be anti-tank. Tanking gets you the best players.

I've always said that all 16 teams that miss the playoffs just get randomly drawn for next year's draft order. That would completely remove tanking from the sport.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Sure, but when it comes to draft picks, there is a material difference between what you get as a "not many wins" team, and what you get for being a true bottom feeder. I want a Top 3 pick because that's what give you the best odds of getting elite talent.

Btw, I'm having fun. Reading about high end draft picks and envisioning a scenario where we could actually be relevant is fun.

The Flames are going to win more than 9 games. San Jose won 20 last year.

If the Flames are playing Colorado I'm still going to cheer for them to win even though I know they're probably going to get smoked. I'm just not going to be upset about it like I would have in past years.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Inferno

The Flames are going to win more than 9 games.

I'm sure, but if all is equal, I'd rather not do it against direct competition for the bottom picks. Keep the wins for the Oilers and Vegas!

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I agree. But until that happens, it's unwise to be anti-tank. Tanking gets you the best players.

I've always said that all 16 teams that miss the playoffs just get randomly drawn for next year's draft order. That would completely remove tanking from the sport.

Unwise? I dont think I have any say on the outcome let alone the lottery balls

[CroCop]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I wonder what Wolf is thinking not being given a chance to redeem himself after his last start.

Most likely thinking it’s BS and coach is an idiot.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I'm sure, but if all is equal, I'd rather not do it against direct competition for the bottom picks. Keep the wins for the Oilers and Vegas!

I get that. It's even more of a reason for me to not be upset if they do happen to lose even though I will be cheering for a win.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

A high draft pick is the consolation prize for the suffering/lack of joy of a terrible season.

If you enjoy the losses, why should you get a consolation prize?

If you don’t enjoy wins now, you don’t deserve to enjoy wins later.

Sorry, this is BS.

I'd like to see a cup in my lifetime. One doesn't need to cheer for wins this year to be a fan.

No one is keeping this master fan scorecard. Fans cheering for wins on December 2nd in a nothingburger season are no more deserving of wins when they count than the rest of us.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I agree. But until that happens, it's unwise to be anti-tank. Tanking gets you the best players.

I've always said that all 16 teams that miss the playoffs just get randomly drawn for next year's draft order. That would completely remove tanking from the sport.

I don’t think there is an anti-tank crowd. I sure have not seen many posts saying keep Kadri, Coleman and Rasmus on the team through the end of their contracts and let them walk for free (which would probably be the minimum for anti-tank along with possibly adding players)

There is a crowd that thinks Conroy should maximize value for his assets and are in no rush to trade the assets for pennies on the dollar to ensure losses and there is a group that thinks these trades have to happen immediately to ensure losses to get a higher pick, regardless of what the return is. That is the only two groups I have ever seen on this message board.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Hockey needs to change the draft system..sports in general really. Even lottery but weighted on where you have picked in the past.

Pay $200 for a ticket but your team is better off losing. Its even worse when you try to explain it to a kid or a new fan. Goes against everything sports should be about.

I agree.

I'm team tank because I want that high end talent, but it's definitely not ideal cheering for loses.

When I watch the game with my kids, I'm cheering for them to win. Then I come on here to voice my true opinion.

I don't know which would be ideal but I feel like all these would be preferable:

- All playoff teams just got randomly ordered after the season with the caveat of not being able to win back to back.

- Similar to current, but all lottery teams have the exact same odds to jump up the 10 spots.

- Static cycle, with every team picking high, mid then low and getting every pick once over a 32 year period.


Currently the mushy middle teams really get punished. I feel any of these would reduce some of that.

[Monahammer]

Waiving Kuznetsov at the beginning of the year looked stupid to many on the board, and has been proven to have been extremely stupid now. We are very, very fortunate that did not bite us in the ass hard.

[Monahammer]

The problem is that the draft system, and the cap, were both created to service league parity. The leagues of the eras when these were independently created wanted to ensure that small market teams had just as much of a chance to win as the Leafs, Habs, Bruins etc. Changing the draft to more quickly reward teams who are on the cusp on playoffs destroys the draft's ability to lift bad teams out of the muck with transformational players, and likely solidifies the Buffalos, Edmontons and similar franchises as never contenders, which ultimately would lose the league a lot of revenue.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I wonder what Wolf is thinking not being given a chance to redeem himself after his last start.

Probably thinking that he has to prepare and play….a lot better.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I wonder what Wolf is thinking not being given a chance to redeem himself after his last start.

TBH I think Wolf is a bit banged up, he looked like he was slower to get up after some plays.