[News] Conroy, Maloney, Nonis and Pascall all extended 2 years

[Finger Cookin]

So you're telling me this is a Sparkling Retooling

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Rebuilding implies building. Which implies action. The Flames have done nearly nothing except internal house keeping.

The biggest concern that I have isn't that the Flames are building to win now. Its that refusing to pick a lane has limited their options to such a degree that they have been inactive.

Conroy deserves credit for not spending cap and assets to try and win short term. But allowing last years success to dictate a direction of no direction is not in the long term interest of this hockey team. It is certainly not an active and intentional rebuild.

What is the action you wanted? Trading vets at bargain prices?

You refuse to give credit for past trades. I suspect the next ones will be the same. Not to mention the building they are already doing through the past couple drafts (Parekh, Gridin, Reschney, Potter, Whyttenbach all seem like they were good picks). And additions from previous drafts that seem to now be making impacts (Kuzenstov, Honzek, Coronato and of course Wolf). Plus additions from trades that look like they will be long term value: Bahl, Farabee.

Going forward the Flames have a probably great starting goalie, and a very capable backup. They have a couple good defensive defencemen and a guy who is boom or bust to be an offensive defenceman. They have a 19 year old winger who looked very good and is killing it in the AHL. They have a three early 20s wingers who look like they will be solid middle sixers.

They need great centres, which is tough. They need Parekh to blossom. But the future isn't that bleak, and that's not a bad base to build from.

[ST20]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

You need to make a statement about how badly you want to tank. You said it is hard to argue that a steady accumulation of assets, what you called the Dallas model, was less desirable than high picks. If you want high picks really go for high picks. Don’t do it half assed. Trading a goalie who is closer to 30 than he is to his draft day would be a good way to really drive home that message.

To your final point, if they are still winning that would be an abject failure for the argument that you need multiple top 3 picks to actually rebuild. Fact is they have been rebuilding for 3 years, now that Team Tank has finally admitted that (spent a lot of time arguing they were not rebuilding and were trying to actually compete) the argument has shifted to how is the right way to rebuild.

I would absolutely blow it all up if our cupboards were bare and we were starting from scratch but they did a good job drafting over the last two years (I would have liked to see more picks). If they draft high for the next two years Wolf, I think Wolf would certainly be a big part of the timeline. I don't understand the concept that you should blow it up more than you need to.

My last point was an exaggeration and we don't need to discuss it. There is zero chance they keep winning.

As, I said in my previous post. The discussion around re-build should have always been around the plan. I think good conversations have been lost based on arguing the semantics of that term and my previous post was trying to get away from that. Whether you think it is a re-build or not people just didn't like what was done and that should be discussion not the semantics around the term.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Rebuilding implies building. Which implies action. The Flames have done nearly nothing except internal house keeping.

The biggest concern that I have isn't that the Flames are building to win now. Its that refusing to pick a lane has limited their options to such a degree that they have been inactive.

Conroy deserves credit for not spending cap and assets to try and win short term. But allowing last years success to dictate a direction of no direction is not in the long term interest of this hockey team. It is certainly not an active and intentional rebuild.

So you set a timeline that eliminates the movement out of 7 veteran players, and then decide that doing nothing after that isn't rebuilding?

Lets just agree to disagree ...

Sitting on mountains of cap space and draft capital and not adding is doing something ... it's purposely not trying to get better.

Which is my mind is rebuilding.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

This is helpful. Best way to make sure we pick high for multiple years is the following

1) trade Dustin Wolf, like now. That would send a clear message that they are trying to lose. Trade him for whatever you can get for him. Make it clear to all vets you are dedicated to losing. If this does not work do the same with Coronato.
2) trade Kadri for whatever you can get for him. Trade Ras for whatever you can get for him, trade Coleman for whatever you can get for him.
3) Weegar likely asks out then, you can probably trade him for whatever you can get for him.

That should be the logical plan that Team Tank should be pushing each and every day.

I’m not sure I understand. Are you advocating that the Flames trade young core pieces who are proven NHL talents, as well as the organization’s best veteran trade chips, for pennies on the dollar just so we can get a slightly better magic bean that might or might not be an NHL player at some point in the future? Are you suggesting that this is a good way to manage the organization’s assets? I don’t think the delta in draft placement is worth as much as the loss from intentionally devaluing assets, especially if you intentionally cause players to demand trades and everyone in the league knows you will take any offers you get, regardless of how bad they are.

Or am I missing the green text in your post?

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think his post was sarcasm because that’s what others seem to be advocating for

[ST20]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Conroy's vision has always been to get younger so the team can compete in the future but he also wants the players to play to win and not be ok with losing. He hasn't swayed away from that since taking over.

As I've already pointed out, there's multiple parts to rebuilding. He could have still traded Andersson but there were also reports that the offers were bad not only for him but for the pending UFAs. He also wasn't having the best season so it would have been selling low when there was no urgent need to trade him.

He could have tried to trade Kadri to Colorado but we've already heard this season that Kadri would prefer to not go back to the US if it comes down to being traded so there's a good chance he probably blocks it anyway with full control.

He also could have brought in some rentals at the deadline but didn't and gave that opportunity to the younger players that helped put the team in that position. Gaining that experience was benificial to their development which will help with the rebuild.

He does not have full control this season but I agree I am glad he didn't make any deadline moves and the chase was beneficial to development.

Getting young is a vague vision. I think, I and many people want to see young as in draft picks not dice roll on guys in their early and mid 20s as a focus for the rebuild.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

There were no conditions where the Flames could have lost their 1st round pick this year. They always were going to have this years pick.

If they picked first overall year then the Habs would have had this years first

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by ST20

He does not have full control this season but I agree I am glad he didn't make any deadline moves and the chase was beneficial to development.

I'm talking about last season when he had full control. If he would prefer to "go east and not south" now that's probably where he was at earlier this year. With the team having a promising season his desire to move again would have been low too.

Getting young is a vague vision. I think, I and many people want to see young as in draft picks not dice roll on guys in their early and mid 20s as a focus for the rebuild.

But based on the moves he's made that's not his vision. He's brought in both draft picks and young NHL ready players.

[dino7c]

Flames have had 6 firsts over three drafts...they might end up with more, when has that every happened in franchise history?

honestly if you are still "they are trying to sneak in at all costs" guy you are kinda dumb lol
Then there is the cap space

[Rhett44]

It just doesn't add up thinking this is a rebuild when we are not shopping Kadri and Coleman. Those are 2 aging assets that you can get a top return for right now. They are also actively hurting our future by being on the roster as they are really good players and helping us win and hurting our draft pick number.

No true rebuilding team would choose to keep these 2 players on their roster. It makes zero sense whatsoever.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

It just doesn't add up thinking this is a rebuild when we are not shopping Kadri and Coleman. Those are 2 aging assets that you can get a top return for right now. They are also actively hurting our future by being on the roster as they are really good players and helping us win and hurting our draft pick number.

No true rebuilding team would choose to keep these 2 players on their roster. It makes zero sense whatsoever.

Go back and look at what other teams have done.
Very rarely do they literally trade every vet.

Just because you don't like how they are re-building doesn't mean they aren't re-building.

[FlamesAddiction]

I just don’t think there are many serious buyers at the moment. Trades are rare at this time of year so n most years, but this year very few teams have separated themselves into buyers and sellers. Teams that might see themselves as buyers probably want to wait to see if they really want to and to see what teams that aren’t sellers now will become a ones.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Go back and look at what other teams have done.
Very rarely do they literally trade every vet.

Just because you don't like how they are re-building doesn't mean they aren't re-building.

It will be an issue in my opinion if they don’t move Kadri and Coleman but I believe at least one of those guys goes.

I can’t think of a rebuilding team in the early stages that held onto valuable 35+ assets. The flames have Huberdeau, Weegar, and Backlund who I do not think are going anywhere

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I just don’t think there are many serious buyers at the moment. Trades are rare at this time of year so n most years, but this year very few teams have separated themselves into buyers and sellers. Teams that might see themselves as buyers probably want to wait to see if they really want to and to see what teams that aren’t sellers now will become a ones.

Friedman reported yesterday that after the Canucks made all their vets available, there is huge interest around the league for Sherwood and Garland. And a trade may get done soon as there are many teams inquiring.

We just haven't made anyone available to really know what the interest is. It is a condensed standings and teams wants to give themselves a better chance.

[Roof-Daddy]

There are only 6 players left on this roster that were on the roster 2.5 years ago, and the Flames have drafted TEN times in rounds 1 thru 3 the last two drafts. A few of those 6 remaining players probably won't be flames before this season ends and the Flames already have 5 picks in rounds 1 thru 3 of the 2026 draft and will almost certainly add to that.

And some people still think Conroy "hasn't picked a lane"??

These people must fall down a lot.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Go back and look at what other teams have done.
Very rarely do they literally trade every vet.

Just because you don't like how they are re-building doesn't mean they aren't re-building.

Every vet? Half our team is filled with vets.

We have more than enough vets, trade these 2 players.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Trading Rasmus (if you can't extend him) and Coleman would be wise.

They are chock full of players at wing including ones coming up and Coleman has interest out there. Don't think his value will be this high again.

If your #1C is happy where he is you're better off keeping him. Top 6Cs don't grow on trees and we won't have another for a little while (probably not until Reschny develops).

So no, you don't need to trade every one. But if you plan on having space for the Gridins of the world and Pospisils when they return somebody will have to be moved out.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Trading Rasmus (if you can't extend him) and Coleman would be wise.

They are chock full of players at wing including ones coming up and Coleman has interest out there. Don't think his value will be this high again.

If your #1C is happy where he is you're better off keeping him. Top 6Cs don't grow on trees and we won't have another for a little while (probably not until Reschny develops).

He won't be a top center for very long. He is getting old.

You will never get assets for him in a couple years, and you will get a haul today. Trading him is a must.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

He won't be a top center for very long. He is getting old.

You will never get assets for him in a couple years, and you will get a haul today. Trading him is a must.

Saying Kadri won’t be able to produce for long because he is old is so last year. That being said it is also next year when he will once again be a 60-70 point guy. Almost certainly it will also be something you can say in 27/28. That is the nice thing about Kadri, he every year for the rest of his contract you will be able to say this is the last year he will produce at a 60-70 point pace because he is getting old.