No, it isn’t easy or simple at all. The depressing paradox is that while devices displace healthy interaction and activity in kids, not using a device is socially isolating.
We did the same stuff as you - our kids were readers, they played with beyblades, pokeomon, and lego, were out at the neighbourhood playground at least an hour a day, usually more. They had hobbies like drawing and playing instruments. They were enrolled in sports. We gave them freedom to run around and play out in the neighbourhood at an early age. And we limited alone screen time to 90 minutes a day.
In grade 6 we gave them flip phones so they could communicate with us and with friends. Things were still fine. In grade 8 we caved and gave them our old smart phones. And like flipping a switch, they dramatically cut back on their analog activities and screen time filled the gap. The devices and content are so addictive that drawing, playing music, and reading don’t stand a chance.
I expect as a society we’ll go one of two ways: We’ll recognize the really bad impact 24/7 digital connectivity has on child development and happiness, and in 30 years people will regard kids glued to phones in the 2020s the way we look at parents in the 60s and 70s smoking in cars, and ask WTF were they thinking? Or we’ll go full Black Mirror.
I look at the way I grew up and compare it to my kids and I was much further ahead than my kids. I did get access to a Gameboy in Elementary school which I played a lot, but honestly speaking, the thing I truly believe to be a far bigger issue... Activities/actions/tasks per minute have doubled, tripled, quadrupled, quintupled from 10-20 years ago.
TL;DR rant in spoiler tags
Spoiler!
My wife and I agree certain aspects of childhood activities are completely out of control. Our kids are enrolled in activities and we've agreed we don't want to overload them like other kids who have curated childhoods and are in literally 3-4x more activities per month from like 5AM to 9PM before grade 3 (ie: Hockey, Kumon, music, second language, swimming, cycling, martial arts, other arts/STEM programs, racing etc.). Some kids love that, and it's fine. But other kids are so obviously exhausted with parents bitching about the time commitments and costs... no thank you, I'm not copying that. Sometimes I wonder if someone looked at the concept of ADHD and said, "Modern problems require modern solutions".
I think I've mentioned it before but it's crazy to me that I see elementary school kids complain about boredom, show symptoms of ennui and have insane levels of learned helplessness or bubble wrapped to the point of inexplicable cluelessness. The online environment and day to day environment don't help, but honestly speaking, it's a lot of the caregivers to the kids that are unknowingly inflicting a lot of this on the kids. Lots of good intentions but unintentionally causes lots of problems by forcing a lifestyle of rapid stop and go vs cruising through life at a good pace.
This isn't just kids, it's hugely adults. Adults control the world, not the kids. Many adults don't seem to notice it either at how much higher of an activities per minute they are at. Notifications on a phone is what most will point at, but strip away the phone and there's still plenty to point at.
For instance, as a kid, I'd frequently nap and rest when bored. The amount of people these days I've heard express an opinion about how napping is a waste of time... should do something like meditation or exercise instead... even adults have serious problems with silence, stillness and darkness.
I honestly believe that one of the things I struggle with figuring out how to teach my kids, is literally a symptom of a serious issue across all of society. We have to attach some type of equipment to the activities we do or it pointless.
Can't do #### without paparazziing it and posting it. You're a weirdo if you cloud watch or star gaze without equipment. Observe the natural world, count cars etc. without a specific objective in mind... well, you might be up to no good... fill that time with something.
For a lack of a better term, I've really tried "dumbing down" my kids childhood, sometimes to the chagrin of others. We do what most others are doing, but attempt to balance it out by taking them into the back yard to collect lady bugs, maxing out the sidewalk chalk, taking them on walks at Nosehill and attempting to identify plants, camp fire and roasting marshmellows (more like making flaming projectiles, but alas), meal prep, baking, bike rides, reading in stupid voices, blanket forts/floor vent saunas, urban exploration where we just hop on transit with the kids and slowly explore vs rush to a location in our vehicle, getting out in the world but learning how to identify the line between safe and danger, teaching the one child better at one skill to teach that skill to someone who isn't as good as them (A challenge because the older is just better at everything the younger one is right now) etc.
In a few years, I plan on teaching them basic cooking like baking or ice cream or dehydration or instant noodles etc.; advanced crafts and "construction" like real tools and raw materials but not one of those Home Depot kits... pure skill building, logic and imagination; I'll get them to start writing their own stories, making their own board games, typing lessons, beat boxing/ventriloquism, another language/ASL, home talent shows with friends to work on stage fright and presentations, music, spontaneous science experiments, volunteering at places like RMH/Childrens/retirement homes/food bank/soup kitchens etc. I seriously am super excited for this stage where I can give them only a wee bit of guidance and a nudge and see them figure things out, solve problems and confusion and accomplish things on their own rather than have to do most of it in very guided and hand held activities like right now.
It's not like I'm digging deep and saying, "Screw modern society. In my day..." Lots of these activities are modernized in episodes of the Bluey series, but IMO many parents are kinda missing the ethos of what makes Bluey great in being curious, relaxed, hardworking... and although the ethos applies to the kids, I'm talking the parents, not the kids.
I spoke with another parent a few weeks ago about the world our kids will grow up in. They have two kids with developmental disabilities. One thing we discussed was what was considered a luxurious lifestyle for a kid in the 80s/90s and what is considered a luxurious lifestyle for a kid now. Many of the things average kids have access to now put them in the ultra rich lifestyles of the 80s/90s. When I was a kid (<highschool), many toys did not exist and were expensive even if you had the money. Digital devices were considered a very expensive luxury for adults let alone being ubiquitous now. Many kids/adults received functional gifts for special occasions or sometimes nothing vs getting what they need nearly immediately.
I honestly wonder if many kids are already feeling the burden of having too many things such as toys, activities or otherwise. That's why they're exhausted or show ennui, stress and boredom at such a young age.
Sorry for the blah. It's been eating away at me. I am just doing things, I don't have an answer, I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong... I just know that many other things I've tried don't seem to have worked. My wife and I have planned to simplify but also look at ourselves and take care of ourselves first. We aim not to let ourselves orbit our children vs the other way around. If we falter or continue down a path of being a poor example, our kids are totally screwed. The world won't want to take care of them like we want to take care of them.
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I look at the way I grew up and compare it to my kids and I was much further ahead than my kids. I did get access to a Gameboy in Elementary school which I played a lot, but honestly speaking, the thing I truly believe to be a far bigger issue... Activities/actions/tasks per minute have doubled, tripled, quadrupled, quintupled from 10-20 years ago.
TL;DR rant in spoiler tags
Spoiler!
My wife and I agree certain aspects of childhood activities are completely out of control. Our kids are enrolled in activities and we've agreed we don't want to overload them like other kids who have curated childhoods and are in literally 3-4x more activities per month from like 5AM to 9PM before grade 3 (ie: Hockey, Kumon, music, second language, swimming, cycling, martial arts, other arts/STEM programs, racing etc.). Some kids love that, and it's fine. But other kids are so obviously exhausted with parents bitching about the time commitments and costs... no thank you, I'm not copying that. Sometimes I wonder if someone looked at the concept of ADHD and said, "Modern problems require modern solutions".
I think I've mentioned it before but it's crazy to me that I see elementary school kids complain about boredom, show symptoms of ennui and have insane levels of learned helplessness or bubble wrapped to the point of inexplicable cluelessness. The online environment and day to day environment don't help, but honestly speaking, it's a lot of the caregivers to the kids that are unknowingly inflicting a lot of this on the kids. Lots of good intentions but unintentionally causes lots of problems by forcing a lifestyle of rapid stop and go vs cruising through life at a good pace.
This isn't just kids, it's hugely adults. Adults control the world, not the kids. Many adults don't seem to notice it either at how much higher of an activities per minute they are at. Notifications on a phone is what most will point at, but strip away the phone and there's still plenty to point at.
For instance, as a kid, I'd frequently nap and rest when bored. The amount of people these days I've heard express an opinion about how napping is a waste of time... should do something like meditation or exercise instead... even adults have serious problems with silence, stillness and darkness.
I honestly believe that one of the things I struggle with figuring out how to teach my kids, is literally a symptom of a serious issue across all of society. We have to attach some type of equipment to the activities we do or it pointless.
Can't do #### without paparazziing it and posting it. You're a weirdo if you cloud watch or star gaze without equipment. Observe the natural world, count cars etc. without a specific objective in mind... well, you might be up to no good... fill that time with something.
For a lack of a better term, I've really tried "dumbing down" my kids childhood, sometimes to the chagrin of others. We do what most others are doing, but attempt to balance it out by taking them into the back yard to collect lady bugs, maxing out the sidewalk chalk, taking them on walks at Nosehill and attempting to identify plants, camp fire and roasting marshmellows (more like making flaming projectiles, but alas), meal prep, baking, bike rides, reading in stupid voices, blanket forts/floor vent saunas, urban exploration where we just hop on transit with the kids and slowly explore vs rush to a location in our vehicle, getting out in the world but learning how to identify the line between safe and danger, teaching the one child better at one skill to teach that skill to someone who isn't as good as them (A challenge because the older is just better at everything the younger one is right now) etc.
In a few years, I plan on teaching them basic cooking like baking or ice cream or dehydration or instant noodles etc.; advanced crafts and "construction" like real tools and raw materials but not one of those Home Depot kits... pure skill building, logic and imagination; I'll get them to start writing their own stories, making their own board games, typing lessons, beat boxing/ventriloquism, another language/ASL, home talent shows with friends to work on stage fright and presentations, music, spontaneous science experiments, volunteering at places like RMH/Childrens/retirement homes/food bank/soup kitchens etc. I seriously am super excited for this stage where I can give them only a wee bit of guidance and a nudge and see them figure things out, solve problems and confusion and accomplish things on their own rather than have to do most of it in very guided and hand held activities like right now.
It's not like I'm digging deep and saying, "Screw modern society. In my day..." Lots of these activities are modernized in episodes of the Bluey series, but IMO many parents are kinda missing the ethos of what makes Bluey great in being curious, relaxed, hardworking... and although the ethos applies to the kids, I'm talking the parents, not the kids.
I spoke with another parent a few weeks ago about the world our kids will grow up in. They have two kids with developmental disabilities. One thing we discussed was what was considered a luxurious lifestyle for a kid in the 80s/90s and what is considered a luxurious lifestyle for a kid now. Many of the things average kids have access to now put them in the ultra rich lifestyles of the 80s/90s. When I was a kid (<highschool), many toys did not exist and were expensive even if you had the money. Digital devices were considered a very expensive luxury for adults let alone being ubiquitous now. Many kids/adults received functional gifts for special occasions or sometimes nothing vs getting what they need nearly immediately.
I honestly wonder if many kids are already feeling the burden of having too many things such as toys, activities or otherwise. That's why they're exhausted or show ennui, stress and boredom at such a young age.
Sorry for the blah. It's been eating away at me. I am just doing things, I don't have an answer, I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong... I just know that many other things I've tried don't seem to have worked. My wife and I have planned to simplify but also look at ourselves and take care of ourselves first. We aim not to let ourselves orbit our children vs the other way around. If we falter or continue down a path of being a poor example, our kids are totally screwed. The world won't want to take care of them like we want to take care of them.
This is not blah at all, man. These are legitimate, scary, big things that are effecting all of our kids. I liked Cliff's earlier analogy about smoking in the car with the kids in the back. Really feels like that's what we are all doing right now. But, here I am spending 6 hours a day minimum locked into a screen for work...
Anyways, I dont have much intelligent stuff to say other than don't feel blah about sharing these deep feelings and thoughts, and kudos on trying to do something to help your kids wind down and smell the roses more in life.
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It really is a damned if you do damned if you don't kind of situation. I grew up without watching TV with exception to HNIC, NFL Sunday, and the Olympics. Every once and a while I could watch a VHS at my Grannies. This was true until I was 14 and bought a DVD player and a TV with my own money.
Basically, I remember being a freak at school for having absolutely no idea what anything was, and to be fair I was a strange kid, and TBH I am a strange adult. I remember WISHING I knew what that stuff was so I could fit in.
As an adult I have very little impulse control binging media consumption. Though maybe I am not as bad as some and just have an increased guilt based on the morality of it all.
The most important thing to teach is moderation, self control, and delayed gratification. Abstinence is not a good strategy.
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I love how you are saying stories about where it did not work out. Choices not ideal.
Things you and others can actually learn from. Nothing worse than some blowhard comes in and talks about how every choice they made was right and how they are now awesome.
"I'd wake up at 6 am in high school and do a work out after having my protein shake, have a cold shower, run 5 miles then set about my day" - Fata off!
No I want to actually learn things you completely lying fake fata.
I love how you are saying stories about where it did not work out. Choices not ideal.
Things you and others can actually learn from. Nothing worse than some blowhard comes in and talks about how every choice they made was right and how they are now awesome.
"I'd wake up at 6 am in high school and do a work out after having my protein shake, have a cold shower, run 5 miles then set about my day" - Fata off!
No I want to actually learn things you completely lying fake fata.
HEY!! I told you about my routine because you asked!! I did not expect you to blab it all over the world!!! Man. So sad.
None of that is true. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night!
I look at the way I grew up and compare it to my kids and I was much further ahead than my kids. I did get access to a Gameboy in Elementary school which I played a lot, but honestly speaking, the thing I truly believe to be a far bigger issue... Activities/actions/tasks per minute have doubled, tripled, quadrupled, quintupled from 10-20 years ago.
TL;DR rant in spoiler tags
Spoiler!
My wife and I agree certain aspects of childhood activities are completely out of control. Our kids are enrolled in activities and we've agreed we don't want to overload them like other kids who have curated childhoods and are in literally 3-4x more activities per month from like 5AM to 9PM before grade 3 (ie: Hockey, Kumon, music, second language, swimming, cycling, martial arts, other arts/STEM programs, racing etc.). Some kids love that, and it's fine. But other kids are so obviously exhausted with parents bitching about the time commitments and costs... no thank you, I'm not copying that. Sometimes I wonder if someone looked at the concept of ADHD and said, "Modern problems require modern solutions".
I think I've mentioned it before but it's crazy to me that I see elementary school kids complain about boredom, show symptoms of ennui and have insane levels of learned helplessness or bubble wrapped to the point of inexplicable cluelessness. The online environment and day to day environment don't help, but honestly speaking, it's a lot of the caregivers to the kids that are unknowingly inflicting a lot of this on the kids. Lots of good intentions but unintentionally causes lots of problems by forcing a lifestyle of rapid stop and go vs cruising through life at a good pace.
This isn't just kids, it's hugely adults. Adults control the world, not the kids. Many adults don't seem to notice it either at how much higher of an activities per minute they are at. Notifications on a phone is what most will point at, but strip away the phone and there's still plenty to point at.
For instance, as a kid, I'd frequently nap and rest when bored. The amount of people these days I've heard express an opinion about how napping is a waste of time... should do something like meditation or exercise instead... even adults have serious problems with silence, stillness and darkness.
I honestly believe that one of the things I struggle with figuring out how to teach my kids, is literally a symptom of a serious issue across all of society. We have to attach some type of equipment to the activities we do or it pointless.
Can't do #### without paparazziing it and posting it. You're a weirdo if you cloud watch or star gaze without equipment. Observe the natural world, count cars etc. without a specific objective in mind... well, you might be up to no good... fill that time with something.
For a lack of a better term, I've really tried "dumbing down" my kids childhood, sometimes to the chagrin of others. We do what most others are doing, but attempt to balance it out by taking them into the back yard to collect lady bugs, maxing out the sidewalk chalk, taking them on walks at Nosehill and attempting to identify plants, camp fire and roasting marshmellows (more like making flaming projectiles, but alas), meal prep, baking, bike rides, reading in stupid voices, blanket forts/floor vent saunas, urban exploration where we just hop on transit with the kids and slowly explore vs rush to a location in our vehicle, getting out in the world but learning how to identify the line between safe and danger, teaching the one child better at one skill to teach that skill to someone who isn't as good as them (A challenge because the older is just better at everything the younger one is right now) etc.
In a few years, I plan on teaching them basic cooking like baking or ice cream or dehydration or instant noodles etc.; advanced crafts and "construction" like real tools and raw materials but not one of those Home Depot kits... pure skill building, logic and imagination; I'll get them to start writing their own stories, making their own board games, typing lessons, beat boxing/ventriloquism, another language/ASL, home talent shows with friends to work on stage fright and presentations, music, spontaneous science experiments, volunteering at places like RMH/Childrens/retirement homes/food bank/soup kitchens etc. I seriously am super excited for this stage where I can give them only a wee bit of guidance and a nudge and see them figure things out, solve problems and confusion and accomplish things on their own rather than have to do most of it in very guided and hand held activities like right now.
It's not like I'm digging deep and saying, "Screw modern society. In my day..." Lots of these activities are modernized in episodes of the Bluey series, but IMO many parents are kinda missing the ethos of what makes Bluey great in being curious, relaxed, hardworking... and although the ethos applies to the kids, I'm talking the parents, not the kids.
I spoke with another parent a few weeks ago about the world our kids will grow up in. They have two kids with developmental disabilities. One thing we discussed was what was considered a luxurious lifestyle for a kid in the 80s/90s and what is considered a luxurious lifestyle for a kid now. Many of the things average kids have access to now put them in the ultra rich lifestyles of the 80s/90s. When I was a kid (<highschool), many toys did not exist and were expensive even if you had the money. Digital devices were considered a very expensive luxury for adults let alone being ubiquitous now. Many kids/adults received functional gifts for special occasions or sometimes nothing vs getting what they need nearly immediately.
I honestly wonder if many kids are already feeling the burden of having too many things such as toys, activities or otherwise. That's why they're exhausted or show ennui, stress and boredom at such a young age.
Sorry for the blah. It's been eating away at me. I am just doing things, I don't have an answer, I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong... I just know that many other things I've tried don't seem to have worked. My wife and I have planned to simplify but also look at ourselves and take care of ourselves first. We aim not to let ourselves orbit our children vs the other way around. If we falter or continue down a path of being a poor example, our kids are totally screwed. The world won't want to take care of them like we want to take care of them.
Again, I think this is one of the reasons you are my favourite poster.
It is incredible that you are thinking about this, and the range of activities you are doing with your kid is amazing. It sounds like you are doing an excellent job. Remember, the number one thing you can give your kids is your intentional time. That is the most important thing. Just keep exposing them to things and they will latch onto something which tweaks their interest. It takes time and effort but is well worth it.
Three thoughts I had about your post. One, have you considered getting them into coding? I realize it is screen time but it is productive, can be fun, and may even start training them for a career.
Two, from your description, you kid may have a form of Attention Deficit Disorder. I know it may be seen as trendy but if they are ADD, it is waaaaay better to find out now that at 55 like I was. I had my kid tested at 19 and here life has turned around because of the interventions that has resulted from the diagnosis. The best book I have read on ADD is called Scattered Minds by Gabor Mate. He absolutely nailed my experience, which I also see reflected in what you are saying about your kid. There are also a lot of online resources you can use to see if any of the behaviours may be applicable to your kid.
Three, you say some of the things you want to do he is too young for. It sounds like he is advanced and may well enjoy challenging things. I built a birdhouse with my kid when she was about 5. All of the activities you mention can be done with varying degrees of participation from the kid. Don't forget, the time is the critical part and exposing him to 'real' things may make him feel important, grown up and capable. I would avoid the trap of 'when he gets to this stage we can do that thing.' You can do those things now to introduce him to them and finding safe ways he can participate and maybe do the things you enjoy a bit more.
I think you are better than most parents and are doing a great job, based on what you have told us. You may be a giant liar, but I don't think so.
Again, I think this is one of the reasons you are my favourite poster.
It is incredible that you are thinking about this, and the range of activities you are doing with your kid is amazing. It sounds like you are doing an excellent job. Remember, the number one thing you can give your kids is your intentional time. That is the most important thing. Just keep exposing them to things and they will latch onto something which tweaks their interest. It takes time and effort but is well worth it.
Three thoughts I had about your post. One, have you considered getting them into coding? I realize it is screen time but it is productive, can be fun, and may even start training them for a career.
Two, from your description, you kid may have a form of Attention Deficit Disorder. I know it may be seen as trendy but if they are ADD, it is waaaaay better to find out now that at 55 like I was. I had my kid tested at 19 and here life has turned around because of the interventions that has resulted from the diagnosis. The best book I have read on ADD is called Scattered Minds by Gabor Mate. He absolutely nailed my experience, which I also see reflected in what you are saying about your kid. There are also a lot of online resources you can use to see if any of the behaviours may be applicable to your kid.
Three, you say some of the things you want to do he is too young for. It sounds like he is advanced and may well enjoy challenging things. I built a birdhouse with my kid when she was about 5. All of the activities you mention can be done with varying degrees of participation from the kid. Don't forget, the time is the critical part and exposing him to 'real' things may make him feel important, grown up and capable. I would avoid the trap of 'when he gets to this stage we can do that thing.' You can do those things now to introduce him to them and finding safe ways he can participate and maybe do the things you enjoy a bit more.
I think you are better than most parents and are doing a great job, based on what you have told us. You may be a giant liar, but I don't think so.
Very much this.
Similar story for one of our kids. Super talented but a complete Space Cadet.
Probably the easiest ADD Diagnosis that Doc will ever make and it took a while to find the right cocktail that worked for her, but man alive did it make a HUGE difference for her Grade 12 to University.
She could actually sit still and focus and her ability to accomplish her schoolwork or practice her music went through the roof.
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
I'm in the early part of my 50s and have been struggling my entire life to get anything done. Going to school in the late 70s and 80s, "very intelligent but refuses to apply himself" was the annual quarterly report from every teacher I had along the way.
Nobody was able to "fix" me. I was always the first one to understand whatever was being taught, and the amount of trouble I'd get in after that often depended on my interest level in the topic and/or the teacher's tolerance for granularly-specific questions. Math and science classes were usually the worst combination for me, because I have a natural interest and aptitude in logic and processes -- but math and science are the most dogmatically-taught subjects of them all. Everything is "because this is how it's done" with no one being able to satisfy my need to understand why it's done that way and to explore other ways of arriving at the same correct answer. "Memorize these formulae and use them in these contexts" would drive me crazy. I always wanted to break everything down and analyze the components so I could understand why, but I could never explain myself properly and so teachers would just call me argumentative or disobedient or a distraction, etc etc. I lived in detention and the principle's offices and was always in trouble at home over it (back then, a teacher's comments were treated like infallible gospel by many parents, and mine were no different). Also, because I went to the same school for 11 years (K to 9 plus one repeated grade), I very quickly developed a reputation that was passed along with me from teacher to teacher.
Anyway, short story long, this has progress all throughout my adult life to where I'm at today, which is finally getting some help. I've been diagnosed with ADHD, but I fear because it's been ignored by me and untreated for so long it's had a sever impact on every aspect of my life. I have terrible time-blindness (a term I've only recently learned about) which is another thing I've never been able to explain to my friends as they frustratingly wait for me to show up at restaurants, coffee shops, etc etc. "[my name]-time" they all call it. As in, "ok but is that 8:00 normal time or [my name]-time?" I can't read anymore. I used to love reading, because it was the one thing people would leave me alone for. I'd get in trouble to talking on the phone or watching tv too long, but I discovered that they'd leave me alone for hours at a time if I was reading a book, and because all I ever really wanted was to not be in trouble all the time (but still had to occupy my mind with something), I fell in love with reading. But nowadays, I can't even read an email all the way through without losing focus and having to start over again repeatedly.
There's a video I saw the other day that explains it pretty good. I understand only two things: "now" and "not now." It's like I have dinner plans at 8pm, but it's only 6pm. Now is not dinner and dinner is not now, so there's no such thing as getting ready for dinner or even thinking about anything related to dinner, because dinner doesn't exist. It's not "now" and therefore doesn't matter until dinner is "now." Unfortunately that means I don't start thinking about dinner until 8pm, which is when dinner becomes "now."
Anyway (again) I've spent more time on one singular aspect of the overall point I wanted to make. Please don't wait until you're 50 to get help for stuff like this. If your kids are having troubles with anything, try to understand what's really happening (beyond their actions) because they probably understand even less about what they're doing than you do. I wish to God someone in my life took me somewhere to get help (although back then who knows what that would have entailed - I don't think the awareness and treatment for ADHD was what it is today). I've been depressed and anxious my whole life... every single moment when my brain isn't completely occupied by something, I feel this overwhelming feeling of being in trouble for something I've done (even though I've done nothing). And I'm starting to understand it's because of this thing I have in my brain that prevents me from being able to focus on anything long enough to intake, process, decide upon, act upon, etc etc. I'm a literal mess, and to know that it could have been (mostly) rectified years and years ago by getting help and simply taking some medication... I've wasted what feels like my entire life for nothing.
I'm pretty worried that whatever medication they're going to give me won't live up to the enormous amount of hope I've placed on it, but I'll find out (hopefully) in a few weeks!
Edit: sorry, I meant to just answer the topic of the thread... I'd say about a 2 or 3 for me right now, but I finally have hope for an upwards trend!
Last edited by FanIn80; 11-27-2025 at 03:38 PM.
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I'm pretty worried that whatever medication they're going to give me won't live up to the enormous amount of hope I've placed on it, but I'll find out (hopefully) in a few weeks!
Edit: sorry, I meant to just answer the topic of the thread... I'd say about a 2 or 3 for me right now, but I finally have hope for an upwards trend!
It may well not, but its important to be open about it because ADD meds are not a 'one-size-fits-all' sort of deal.
If it isnt working for you, tell your Doc and try something else. Like I said in my post above, it took a while for the kid to find the right cocktail for her.
Or you could get Lobotomized and try some electroshock therapy, I've been hearing good things and that they get great results!
I kid. Best of luck!
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
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I'm in the early part of my 50s and have been struggling my entire life to get anything done. Going to school in the late 70s and 80s, "very intelligent but refuses to apply himself" was the annual quarterly report from every teacher I had along the way.
Nobody was able to "fix" me. I was always the first one to understand whatever was being taught, and the amount of trouble I'd get in after that often depended on my interest level in the topic and/or the teacher's tolerance for granularly-specific questions. Math and science classes were usually the worst combination for me, because I have a natural interest and aptitude in logic and processes -- but math and science are the most dogmatically-taught subjects of them all. Everything is "because this is how it's done" with no one being able to satisfy my need to understand why it's done that way and to explore other ways of arriving at the same correct answer. "Memorize these formulae and use them in these contexts" would drive me crazy. I always wanted to break everything down and analyze the components so I could understand why, but I could never explain myself properly and so teachers would just call me argumentative or disobedient or a distraction, etc etc. I lived in detention and the principle's offices and was always in trouble at home over it (back then, a teacher's comments were treated like infallible gospel by many parents, and mine were no different). Also, because I went to the same school for 11 years (K to 9 plus one repeated grade), I very quickly developed a reputation that was passed along with me from teacher to teacher.
Anyway, short story long, this has progress all throughout my adult life to where I'm at today, which is finally getting some help. I've been diagnosed with ADHD, but I fear because it's been ignored by me and untreated for so long it's had a sever impact on every aspect of my life. I have terrible time-blindness (a term I've only recently learned about) which is another thing I've never been able to explain to my friends as they frustratingly wait for me to show up at restaurants, coffee shops, etc etc. "[my name]-time" they all call it. As in, "ok but is that 8:00 normal time or [my name]-time?" I can't read anymore. I used to love reading, because it was the one thing people would leave me alone for. I'd get in trouble to talking on the phone or watching tv too long, but I discovered that they'd leave me alone for hours at a time if I was reading a book, and because all I ever really wanted was to not be in trouble all the time (but still had to occupy my mind with something), I fell in love with reading. But nowadays, I can't even read an email all the way through without losing focus and having to start over again repeatedly.
There's a video I saw the other day that explains it pretty good. I understand only two things: "now" and "not now." It's like I have dinner plans at 8pm, but it's only 6pm. Now is not dinner and dinner is not now, so there's no such thing as getting ready for dinner or even thinking about anything related to dinner, because dinner doesn't exist. It's not "now" and therefore doesn't matter until dinner is "now." Unfortunately that means I don't start thinking about dinner until 8pm, which is when dinner becomes "now."
Anyway (again) I've spent more time on one singular aspect of the overall point I wanted to make. Please don't wait until you're 50 to get help for stuff like this. If your kids are having troubles with anything, try to understand what's really happening (beyond their actions) because they probably understand even less about what they're doing than you do. I wish to God someone in my life took me somewhere to get help (although back then who knows what that would have entailed - I don't think the awareness and treatment for ADHD was what it is today). I've been depressed and anxious my whole life... every single moment when my brain isn't completely occupied by something, I feel this overwhelming feeling of being in trouble for something I've done (even though I've done nothing). And I'm starting to understand it's because of this thing I have in my brain that prevents me from being able to focus on anything long enough to intake, process, decide upon, act upon, etc etc. I'm a literal mess, and to know that it could have been (mostly) rectified years and years ago by getting help and simply taking some medication... I've wasted what feels like my entire life for nothing.
I'm pretty worried that whatever medication they're going to give me won't live up to the enormous amount of hope I've placed on it, but I'll find out (hopefully) in a few weeks!
Edit: sorry, I meant to just answer the topic of the thread... I'd say about a 2 or 3 for me right now, but I finally have hope for an upwards trend!
You are one of my faves so F off being negative about yourself. We are all kinda fataed. That's what makes life worth living. The top is nothing if you have never seen the bottom. Also, there is no top.
The usual PM me to talk if you want. I hate typing so a convo would be preferable. I will send my number. I'm in a similar schitboat.
If we were all just a bunch of perfectly normal compliant humans, that would be hell or a George Orwell story.
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You are one of my faves so F off being negative about yourself. We are all kinda fataed. That's what makes life worth living. The top is nothing if you have never seen the bottom. Also, there is no top.
The usual PM me to talk if you want. I hate typing so a convo would be preferable. I will send my number. I'm in a similar schitboat.
If we were all just a bunch of perfectly normal compliant humans, that would be hell or a George Orwell story.
Haha, thanks man. I'm terrified of talking to people I don't know very well. I'd be f'd without this place. It's full of people I don't know! lol
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I'm in the early part of my 50s and have been struggling my entire life to get anything done. Going to school in the late 70s and 80s, "very intelligent but refuses to apply himself" was the annual quarterly report from every teacher I had along the way.
Spoiler!
Nobody was able to "fix" me. I was always the first one to understand whatever was being taught, and the amount of trouble I'd get in after that often depended on my interest level in the topic and/or the teacher's tolerance for granularly-specific questions. Math and science classes were usually the worst combination for me, because I have a natural interest and aptitude in logic and processes -- but math and science are the most dogmatically-taught subjects of them all. Everything is "because this is how it's done" with no one being able to satisfy my need to understand why it's done that way and to explore other ways of arriving at the same correct answer. "Memorize these formulae and use them in these contexts" would drive me crazy. I always wanted to break everything down and analyze the components so I could understand why, but I could never explain myself properly and so teachers would just call me argumentative or disobedient or a distraction, etc etc. I lived in detention and the principle's offices and was always in trouble at home over it (back then, a teacher's comments were treated like infallible gospel by many parents, and mine were no different). Also, because I went to the same school for 11 years (K to 9 plus one repeated grade), I very quickly developed a reputation that was passed along with me from teacher to teacher.
Anyway, short story long, this has progress all throughout my adult life to where I'm at today, which is finally getting some help. I've been diagnosed with ADHD, but I fear because it's been ignored by me and untreated for so long it's had a sever impact on every aspect of my life. I have terrible time-blindness (a term I've only recently learned about) which is another thing I've never been able to explain to my friends as they frustratingly wait for me to show up at restaurants, coffee shops, etc etc. "[my name]-time" they all call it. As in, "ok but is that 8:00 normal time or [my name]-time?" I can't read anymore. I used to love reading, because it was the one thing people would leave me alone for. I'd get in trouble to talking on the phone or watching tv too long, but I discovered that they'd leave me alone for hours at a time if I was reading a book, and because all I ever really wanted was to not be in trouble all the time (but still had to occupy my mind with something), I fell in love with reading. But nowadays, I can't even read an email all the way through without losing focus and having to start over again repeatedly.
There's a video I saw the other day that explains it pretty good. I understand only two things: "now" and "not now." It's like I have dinner plans at 8pm, but it's only 6pm. Now is not dinner and dinner is not now, so there's no such thing as getting ready for dinner or even thinking about anything related to dinner, because dinner doesn't exist. It's not "now" and therefore doesn't matter until dinner is "now." Unfortunately that means I don't start thinking about dinner until 8pm, which is when dinner becomes "now."
Anyway (again) I've spent more time on one singular aspect of the overall point I wanted to make. Please don't wait until you're 50 to get help for stuff like this. If your kids are having troubles with anything, try to understand what's really happening (beyond their actions) because they probably understand even less about what they're doing than you do. I wish to God someone in my life took me somewhere to get help (although back then who knows what that would have entailed - I don't think the awareness and treatment for ADHD was what it is today). I've been depressed and anxious my whole life... every single moment when my brain isn't completely occupied by something, I feel this overwhelming feeling of being in trouble for something I've done (even though I've done nothing). And I'm starting to understand it's because of this thing I have in my brain that prevents me from being able to focus on anything long enough to intake, process, decide upon, act upon, etc etc. I'm a literal mess, and to know that it could have been (mostly) rectified years and years ago by getting help and simply taking some medication... I've wasted what feels like my entire life for nothing.
I'm pretty worried that whatever medication they're going to give me won't live up to the enormous amount of hope I've placed on it, but I'll find out (hopefully) in a few weeks!
Edit: sorry, I meant to just answer the topic of the thread... I'd say about a 2 or 3 for me right now, but I finally have hope for an upwards trend
!
Our experience has been VERY similar. I am on Vyvanse and it has changed my life. Not only am I able to focus but, more importantly, I am able to get started on tasks. That, to me, was the game changer. Again, the book Scattered Minds was very helpful and resonated with me. I highly recomend it.
Also, I noticed that I would only listen to audio books so I could play a game on my phone or do chores or whatever. I have consciously tried to read more to train myself to do it. I find a Dan Brown or other exciting novel helps.
A lot of people out there say they have this epiphany when they take the first dose. don't expect that. Would be great if it happens but it may not. A lot of people say it gets quiet in their head when they med, but I did not really find that. Again, keep your expectations low and don't be afraid to tell the doctor if you don't think it is working. Good luck.
__________________
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Our experience has been VERY similar. I am on Vyvanse and it has changed my life. Not only am I able to focus but, more importantly, I am able to get started on tasks. That, to me, was the game changer. Again, the book Scattered Minds was very helpful and resonated with me. I highly recomend it.
Also, I noticed that I would only listen to audio books so I could play a game on my phone or do chores or whatever. I have consciously tried to read more to train myself to do it. I find a Dan Brown or other exciting novel helps.
A lot of people out there say they have this epiphany when they take the first dose. don't expect that. Would be great if it happens but it may not. A lot of people say it gets quiet in their head when they med, but I did not really find that. Again, keep your expectations low and don't be afraid to tell the doctor if you don't think it is working. Good luck.
Thanks man, that's good to know! I had some weird luck with places... my Dr referred me to an online psychiatrist place, but they literally closed down and sent me back to the physician in between diagnosing me and starting treatment. My Dr prescribed Vyvanse for me in the meantime while he referred me to a local place here in YYC, but I've been hesitant to take it as I'm already on Effexor for anxiety/depression (which I now know was just treating some of the symptoms (side effects, maybe?) of ADHD). I read that there's a risk of a serious interaction between the two, so I'm keeping things as is until I meet finally get to meet with the Dr at the new place.
Thanks man, that's good to know! I had some weird luck with places... my Dr referred me to an online psychiatrist place, but they literally closed down and sent me back to the physician in between diagnosing me and starting treatment. My Dr prescribed Vyvanse for me in the meantime while he referred me to a local place here in YYC, but I've been hesitant to take it as I'm already on Effexor for anxiety/depression (which I now know was just treating some of the symptoms (side effects, maybe?) of ADHD). I read that there's a risk of a serious interaction between the two, so I'm keeping things as is until I meet finally get to meet with the Dr at the new place.
What? Am I off? That seems weird.
If your Doctor doesnt know he shouldnt be pawning you off to WebMD or Grok or whatever, but perhaps someone with experience?
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
Thanks man, that's good to know! I had some weird luck with places... my Dr referred me to an online psychiatrist place, but they literally closed down and sent me back to the physician in between diagnosing me and starting treatment. My Dr prescribed Vyvanse for me in the meantime while he referred me to a local place here in YYC, but I've been hesitant to take it as I'm already on Effexor for anxiety/depression (which I now know was just treating some of the symptoms (side effects, maybe?) of ADHD). I read that there's a risk of a serious interaction between the two, so I'm keeping things as is until I meet finally get to meet with the Dr at the new place.
Obviously, I am not a Doctor/Pharmacist/Pschiatrist etc. but if you have seen there may be a serious interaction don't take it. Maybe discuss with a pharmacist while you wait to get into the doctor. Weird they would put you on something that has a negative interaction. I am also on Escitalopram and Quetiapine. The latter also helps with sleep but I find it does have a holdover in the morning. The former has literally saved my life. When I miss a day the 'dark' thoughts come back hard and fast. Only telling you so you can have a sense of what others are taking when you talk to the doc.
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Also, another recommendation for Dr. Jennifer Primmer. She is 'just' a therapist/counsellor rather than a psychiatrist/psychologist, but she knows her stuff. Her Phd is in brain biology/function. She also works with the CFD and CPS members who have seen some ####.
If your Doctor doesnt know he shouldnt be pawning you off to WebMD or Grok or whatever, but perhaps someone with experience?
My family doc referred me to "Hello Mental Health" which is an online service where you can get treatment over video calls. It's a "by referral only" service, and after they did my inital concult/diagnoses, they booked me for ongoing treatment... but then texted me to let me know they were shutting down their Psychiatric Division before my first session started.
This is a copy/paste of the text I received:
Quote:
Hello, I wanted to share an important clinical update with you. Unfortunately we recently closed our counselling division and will also no longer be able to offer psychiatric consultations.
As a result, we have cancelled your psychiatric consultation appointment this week and will refer you back to your primary care provider.
A letter will be sent out informing clinics of this update shortly. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. Please connect with your primary care provider for alternative services/resources. Thank you for your understanding.
Hello Mental Health
Psychiatry Division
So when I followed back up with my family doc, he appologized profusely and then referred me to a local in-person Psychiatrist here in town. We also discussed the diagnoses and I mentioned I was hopeful about the medication they had told me about, so he asked if I wanted him to perscribe something in the meantime while I wait for the local Psychiatrist to contact me... I said yes, and when I asked about interactions with Effexor, he said nothing serious comes up for him but I should speak with the pharmacist first to be extra careful. I looked it up on my own on WebMD, and it mentions a potential serious interaction with all drugs that are of the same nature as Effexor. I checked with the pharmacist, and they also mentioned this. but said it's usually fine in low doses (like, if I lower my Effexor dosage).
Because I don't want to risk messing my brain up more than it is (lol?), I've been holding off on taking it (I haven't even picked it up yet) until I meet/speak with the Psychiatrist.
Edit: I guess it wasn't WebMD... it was Drugs.com:
Quote:
Interactions between your drugs
Major
venlafaxine lisdexamfetamine
Applies to: Effexor (venlafaxine) and Vyvanse (lisdexamfetamine)
Talk to your doctor before using venlafaxine together with lisdexamfetamine. Venlafaxine may increase the effects of lisdexamfetamine, and side effects such as jitteriness, nervousness, anxiety, restlessness, and racing thoughts have been reported. Combining these medications can also increase the risk of a rare but serious condition called the serotonin syndrome, which may include symptoms such as confusion, hallucination, seizure, extreme changes in blood pressure, increased heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, blurred vision, muscle spasm or stiffness, tremor, incoordination, stomach cramp, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Severe cases may result in coma and even death. You should contact your doctor immediately if you experience these symptoms while taking the medications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.
