[News] The Athletic - NHL Owner Rankings - Murray Edwards 30th

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

With Huberdeau (or any "bad" contract) I always try to decide how bad it is vs the relative value.

Guessing Huberdeau is roughly a $7M player based on recent production, maybe $7.5. Add in some special teams work and the leadership stuff and lets make it $8M.

So -$2.5M

Where is that vs say James Neal when he was here? $5.75M cap hit and what -$4M in value?

Where is Sharangovich now in value? Guessing worse than Huberdeau as a differential.

Sharangovich is worse value today even though I don't think Huby is an $8 million player. If I could pick one player today to lose, it would be Yegor.

Huberdeau will become a greater problem once he is blocking someone in the top 6. At least Shargovich can be sat and it doesn't create much of a stir (which is part of his problem). Might be harder with Huberdeau.

Neal was never a $4 million player for the Flames. He did nothing for this team but take up space.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Your only counterpoint was that Kadri had a good season on a different team 4 years ago. It’s definitely a point, a really poorly thought out one, but I’m proud of you for doing your best.

I made several other counterpoints, which you completely ignored.

You don't even attempt to argue honestly.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Only if you are "peple" (I think imma leave that typo alone).

At first I didn’t think you deserved to be bullied for saying how big the Calgary market is but now I’m not so sure.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ba'alzamon

I'll say it was a lack of due diligence. Neal isn't even a RHS lol.

That's my bad, not theirs LOL. But the plan was certainly for him to be RW with Monahan and Gaudreau. I think Lindholm was to be a 2C.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I made several other counterpoints, which you completely ignored.

You don't even attempt to argue honestly.

You said Kadri had one good season when he was in his early 30s on a different team which is not a well thought out argument. Also for someone who won’t be responding any further you sure respond a lot. Pretty weak constitution from I R gud lawyer

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

You said Kadri had one good season when he was in his early 30s on a different team which is not a well thought out argument. Also for someone who won’t be responding any further you sure respond a lot. Pretty weak constitution from I R gud lawyer

You can't keep the people you are insulting straight.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Frank can be a bit of a blowhard, but he's torching Maloney.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1993023193880383555

I watch that and I feel like Maloney must have really wronged Frank along the way. Almost feels like this is personal for Frank. Sure seems to hate Maloney.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If Calgary lost its team to would be 10 years before another was tried. And 1.7M is the metro population, which is a lot smaller than most NHL cities - it’s the 5th smallest I think. And he NHL has been burned by going back to the same city twice.

Odd, how you speak so absolute.

Burned returning to same city twice, is a material sample size.
Burned in Atlanta. Agreed.
Burned in Winnipeg? Debatable, I'd say no.
Burned in Denver? Absolutely not.
Burned in Ottawa? Debatable, I'd say no.

The team is a desired asset, with a new arena on the horizon and tied to a lease. Do you genuinely believe, the Flames would have trouble replacing Murray? (buying him out/finding new investors)

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Buff

I watch that and I feel like Maloney must have really wronged Frank along the way. Almost feels like this is personal for Frank. Sure seems to hate Maloney.

Maybe Frank is now a Flames fan and wants to see us succeed long term. Or he's still upset about his Oilers start to the season and is taking it out on everyone.

[Locke]

So...are there plans for the new Arena to have a guillotine at Center Ice so when the fans revolt we can make a proper Revolution of it?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Odd, how you speak so absolute.

Burned returning to same city twice, is a material sample size.
Burned in Atlanta. Agreed.
Burned in Winnipeg? Debatable, I'd say no.
Burned in Denver? Absolutely not.
Burned in Ottawa? Debatable, I'd say no.

The team is a desired asset, with a new arena on the horizon and tied to a lease. Do you genuinely believe, the Flames would have trouble replacing Murray? (buying him out/finding new investors)

Ottawa?

I think replacing Murray as an investor is different than replacing the team if it was sold to, say a Houston owner.

But I do think it's difficult to get replacement investors because, despite the valuations, I don't see someone ponying up that much for shares in this franchise. I have real issues with the valuations - I have no clue how they get there (on almost any team). It certainly doesn't match normal company valuations.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

You said Kadri had one good season when he was in his early 30s on a different team which is not a well thought out argument. Also for someone who won’t be responding any further you sure respond a lot. Pretty weak constitution from I R gud lawyer

You idiot, I'm not GioforPM. Do you even bother to check who you're replying to?

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Bingo

But if you put yourself in the judge's chair to decide when you're in an argument with someone that you feel is beneath you (my words, you say deficiencies and lack of faculties), it doesn't hold much validity.

Like above when you say break from homerism ... right there you're labeling someone less angry about things as a homer. Not you're right to decide where that line is, and it's another ad hominem attack.

I’m not a judge and CP isn’t a court. I’m not trying to win over anyone’s opinion, favour or rally support in any way, I couldn’t care less. Maybe others need internet points for validation, but that’s not how I want to live my life. I have also never said anyone was beneath me, that’s probably something you’re reading into from my tone, but that’s your choice to do so, and once again I’m not trying to win over your opinion. No one is beneath me, we’re all people here, however not all of us have equal strengths and weaknesses. For example I’m not always the strongest communicator, it’s a flaw and something I’m working on. Others think points in the NHL don’t matter, and that’s stupid.

About the homerism thing, it is actually my right to decide where the line is drawn for calling something homerism…to me. It doesn’t mean you have to agree with it but I am absolutely in the right to decide where I define a nebulous concept like homerism.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Ottawa?

I think replacing Murray as an investor is different than replacing the team if it was sold to, say a Houston owner.

But I do think it's difficult to get replacement investors because, despite the valuations, I don't see someone ponying up that much for shares in this franchise. I have real issues with the valuations - I have no clue how they get there (on almost any team). It certainly doesn't match normal company valuations.

Firstly, I think most agree there is zero chance the franchise moves, now that the rink deal is done. Houston in this context, is pretty much irrelevant. Winnipeg, Ottawa, convo? perhaps.

It's why I've stressed the Root Cause, is Murray -- and replacing him is my ideal.

I get the valuation piece, sports franchises are wonky that way. I think ~$2bn is a reasonable guesstimate.
Lets spitball his ownership of that around $1.1b, with the remaining $900m, split in thirds amongst Libin, Markin, & McCaig. I of course have no idea what the split is, just that I've heard he is the majority owner.
Help me understand. Why would finding investors in 2026, be more difficult than 1994, and 1980? You have three other owners, that could step up too, perhaps just the younger McCaig. It happened with Ottawa, without a new rink, in a less desirable market.


My ideal, is Murray has an about-to, recognizing his string pulling is not working, and gives full autonomy to Craig.
Better yet, he sells his Flames majority share, sells RCR to VAIL, and in his newfound spare time takes ski lessons, and actually goes skiing. I'm not sure RCR has afforded him that ability.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I’m not a judge and CP isn’t a court. I’m not trying to win over anyone’s opinion, favour or rally support in any way, I couldn’t care less. Maybe others need internet points for validation, but that’s not how I want to live my life. I have also never said anyone was beneath me, that’s probably something you’re reading into from my tone, but that’s your choice to do so, and once again I’m not trying to win over your opinion. No one is beneath me, we’re all people here, however not all of us have equal strengths and weaknesses. For example I’m not always the strongest communicator, it’s a flaw and something I’m working on. Others think points in the NHL don’t matter, and that’s stupid.

About the homerism thing, it is actually my right to decide where the line is drawn for calling something homerism…to me. It doesn’t mean you have to agree with it but I am absolutely in the right to decide where I define a nebulous concept like homerism.

If you're happy making ad hominem attacks when your point is weak ... fill your boots!

Won't gain you much positive discussion. Could end up with a ban.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You can't keep the people you are insulting straight.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Other than an 18 game point sample, what evidence do you have of this?

Obviously Hunt isn't as good as Draisaitl. But then, I have evidence of each of their point totals away from McDavid.

I also have evidence of Kadri playing on a top line with really good players on an offensive minded team (when Mackinnon was out).

I’m sorry you have to be in your own brain, must be dreadfully boring.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You idiot, I'm not GioforPM. Do you even bother to check who you're replying to?

See above dip####, who can’t keep it straight now.

[Teroy]

I really enjoy logical, well thought out and informative posts here. I abhor the petty bickering, constant put downs and know it all comments.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

See above dip####, who can’t keep it straight now.

You can't keep it straight, that's who. I am not GioforPM. He is not me. I did not make the remarks you accuse him of making. (Neither did he, for that matter. I read what he said, and I read your laughable twisting of his words, and they are not the same at all.)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Firstly, I think most agree there is zero chance the franchise moves, now that the rink deal is done. Houston in this context, is pretty much irrelevant. Winnipeg, Ottawa, convo? perhaps.

It's why I've stressed the Root Cause, is Murray -- and replacing him is my ideal.

I get the valuation piece, sports franchises are wonky that way. I think ~$2bn is a reasonable guesstimate.
Lets spitball his ownership of that around $1.1b, with the remaining $900m, split in thirds amongst Libin, Markin, & McCaig. I of course have no idea what the split is, just that I've heard he is the majority owner.
Help me understand. Why would finding investors in 2026, be more difficult than 1994, and 1980? You have three other owners, that could step up too, perhaps just the younger McCaig. It happened with Ottawa, without a new rink, in a less desirable market.


My ideal, is Murray has an about-to, recognizing his string pulling is not working, and gives full autonomy to Craig.
Better yet, he sells his Flames majority share, sells RCR to VAIL, and in his newfound spare time takes ski lessons, and actually goes skiing. I'm not sure RCR has afforded him that ability.

In Ottawa its what I understand to be a big investor group (led by Andlauer) so the cost (just under $1B) is spread pretty widely. That would probably be better for the people here (the more owners there are the less one is pulling the strings).

Yeah, the valuation is a mystery to me. How can you possibly make back $1B with a hockey club that loses money as much as it profits year to year, short of selling to some new sucker? Of course, who knows how those payments are made anyway. The Flames profit last year was $37M before taxes. If they make that every year (which they don't) I have to rake all that in over 32 years to get back my investment.

But this suggests the valuation of sports franchises is done with much different multiples than normal businesses. Why? I dunno.

https://cbvinstitute.com/wp-content/...Franchises.pdf