[News] Sportsnet interview with Maloney (2-parter)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Freeway

I think when your first several years of franchise ownership are a white-knuckle ride to keep things afloat due to forces beyond your control, it leaves some scar tissue.

Edwards' business models are typically absed on cash flow (not overall business vlaue). So year to year money in-money out is always a big deal to him. POs are the key to a proftable year versus a losing one quite often. That's probably incompatible with long term NHL team building. It's probably easier to do in a metor area of 9M versus 1.7. I bet the ticket sales for SJ over the last 4 years look pretty grim for a lot of owners.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by traptor

They did add last year. They moved a 2nd for Frost + Farabee. Not a big add, and a move that could've helped now and in the future, but it was an add and a 2nd is not nothing.


If you believe the media around the team like Steinberg, they made a strong attempt for Lindgren but he didn't want to play in Canada. Then they made a strong attempt to trade for K'Andre Miller.
I fully understand they didn't make these moves, but intent does count for something (if you believe they were serious)

The trade was Pelletier, Kuzemenko, a second and a 7th for Frost and Farabee. The Flames got younger. Not all rebuilding moves are draft moves.

The offseason prior to that trade they traded Mangiapane and Markstrom.

And of course the previous season they unloaded even more vets.

I'm not going to get fussed if they are looking to add 24-25 year old defencemen because that age still fits into a rebuild.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bingo

If they truly wanted to improve and make the playoffs last and this year they would have spent some money in the last two off seasons and added at the last trade deadline.

I just don't think they handle things well.

I think they are terrified of a return to 1993-1997, and with that they are convinced that you don't need to worry about the vocal minority and instead focus on what the quiet majority needs to hear.

So many connected to things saying Conroy will get done, so I just lean into that and wait.

Easy to lean in and wait when you're counting the money from those cheques Murray keeps sending you.

But seriously I think the whole minority vs majority thing is quite skewed. I don't think this is a scenario where there is a vocal minority and quiet majority.

There are a very vocal minority that believe the team needs to tank right now, fire Edwards, etc.

But I actually think there is a quiet majority that wants the team to rebuild, wants them to get high picks, and actually take a different approach than usual.

And then I think there is a group that actually wants the team to try to push to be competitive now, and I think that's your actual quiet minority, and in no way is a representative of the base. But what Maloney said actually kind of pushes more to what this latter group wants.

I certainly don't think there is a quiet majority out there that is happy with what Maloney said last week. At best all the defenders can come up with is "He's not really giving insight into anything, he's just saying they aren't quitting to keep the casual fans happy"

Honestly this whole quiet majority thing is just a different angle to the whole "Tier 1" fan thing that Lowe said years ago that we all laughed and criticized him for.

[Burninator]

Pessimistic Burninator
The Flames have treated their success (03/04, first in the conference, making the playoffs) as the expected behaviour when it's actually been the outlier. The "real Flames" was the successful season and missing the playoffs team was not the real team. Heck this years team even feels like last season was the "real Flames" the ones that did in fact not make the playoffs. 20 years and 3 series wins are the real mediocre Flames and the real results.

Optimistic Burninator
Actions speak louder than words. The Flames are rebuilding, they are not trading away their future for short term gain. They are trusting Conroy and Huska in the process. Maloney is gaslighting the fans and not speaking to his office's true intentions.

Realistic Burninator
If Conroy is in fact rebuilding the team then great, let him cook please. If he and the Flames think we are a retool away from being truly competitive, then give your head a shake and clean out the front office. I'll echo what Pinder said. You cannot have a new arena, with new ticket prices, with new beer and food prices and the same mediocre team.

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, me as well.

I have been saying 'follow their actions, not their words' for the entire rebuild (Conroy’s tenure). But the lack of an extension, combined with these comments, warrants cause for pause. What REALLY concerns me is the fact that there have been no actions from Conroy for a year.

I have no doubt that he was given the green light to do a quick rebiggle. But now, 2 years later, the team isn't better, they're 32nd. And my concern is that there is no longer an appetite to continue on the path Conroy has been walking.

Again, to the argument: judge them by what they do, not what they say, I ask this: what actions? The only actions we have to assess are zero activity from Conroy and a sudden appearance from DM.

IMO, there is reason to worry that the tides have shifted.

Sure, but none of us have control over any of this so there's really no point in worrying. Connecting dots we don't fully understand or have a full picture of, getting upset about scenario's we've made up in our heads and worrying about stuff that is out of our control has literally helped no one in the history of humanity. It's a sign we all have too much time on our hands or something.

If the Flames do what a lot of fans are worried they are going to do, then we will have a lot of time to complain about it later AFTER it happens. Until then we should probably try and find some positives and find a way to enjoy this season somehow because, and I really mean this, the bitching and crying coming from Flames fans these last few weeks has gotten real old real fast.

There's debate, and then there's whatever the hell is going on in this city the last few weeks. It's not even just happening on this website or on Reddit. I hear it talking to people at work and stuff. People are acting damaged and traumatized. And trust me I get it. I'm 39 years old. I'm too young to remember when this team was truly good and I can count on 3 fingers how many fun seasons this team has had. It's ####ing awful...but it's a sport. It's supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be an escape.

Some people need to get a real grip. Life's to short for whatever the **** has been happening the last few weeks. It's been pretty damn embarrassing to see and I believe we can be better than that.

(Sorry Enoch this isn't directed at you. You're a great poster.)

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by traptor

They did add last year. They moved a 2nd for Frost + Farabee. Not a big add, and a move that could've helped now and in the future, but it was an add and a 2nd is not nothing.


If you believe the media around the team like Steinberg, they made a strong attempt for Lindgren but he didn't want to play in Canada. Then they made a strong attempt to trade for K'Andre Miller.
I fully understand they didn't make these moves, but intent does count for something (if you believe they were serious)

Feels like you already refuted your own point in that post.

Intent if 100% proven is something. But rumours that don't come true aren't intent in my mind.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Easy to lean in and wait when you're counting the money from those cheques Murray keeps sending you.

But seriously I think the whole minority vs majority thing is quite skewed. I don't think this is a scenario where there is a vocal minority and quiet majority.

There are a very vocal minority that believe the team needs to tank right now, fire Edwards, etc.

But I actually think there is a quiet majority that wants the team to rebuild, wants them to get high picks, and actually take a different approach than usual.

And then I think there is a group that actually wants the team to try to push to be competitive now, and I think that's your actual quiet minority, and in no way is a representative of the base. But what Maloney said actually kind of pushes more to what this latter group wants.

I certainly don't think there is a quiet majority out there that is happy with what Maloney said last week. At best all the defenders can come up with is "He's not really giving insight into anything, he's just saying they aren't quitting to keep the casual fans happy"

Honestly this whole quiet majority thing is just a different angle to the whole "Tier 1" fan thing that Lowe said years ago that we all laughed and criticized him for.

First off I don't know the split at all ... just pondering what they might be thinking.

And I'm more splitting between the on tilt group from Maloney's comments vs the hate the message but watching the actions group.

Both want the future to be the focus.

But given the vitriol on social media on Thursday and Friday last week, the fact that the Saturday game was pretty quiet may add support the "futures focused but losing their ####" majority argument.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Matty81

It's the hope that kills you with the flames always and the little glimpse of hope for a top 3 pick, and the chance to lean more heavily into that path and make an early trade or two to really try to grab some high end talent and win a cup big picture was just another one of those scenarios where you start to dream a bit and it falls flat, albeit crappier than when you thought they're going to make a run at a cup and get crushed like in the early 90s, after 03-04 or the tkachuk/monahan/gaudreau era.

I'm kind of in the same boat as funkhouser above... if they keep together the veteran group, go on a run and draft in the 8-18 range personally might just step back from watching them so closely for a couple years, I'll always be a huge fan, but it just feels like they don't really have a plan to try and win a cup and it just doesn't feel like a good investment of time or money being on the road to nowhere with them. If Edwards doesn't care about winning a cup and is satisfied with squeaking into the playoffs, or even in wildest dreams stealing a round - why should we care?

Beyond that they're not tough, they're not skilled, just watching a talentless team devoid of high end offensive talent grind out wins on effort, while admirable, isn't that great even when the win.

I'd rather watch a rebuilding team that gets thumped every night but has some hope for the future. Anyway you can't run from it forever, I am sure in a couple of years they will end up with some good young players and be on the up. It felt a lot like this around the time Baerstchi was coming in and the cupboard was bare beyond him.

I've been pretty checked out for a while now, because it's just been obvious this roster is going nowhere and there was really nothing in sight that would change that.

I found myself interested again when I saw the possibility of an actual bottom 3 finish in a strong draft year. It's a ray of hope for a team that's been stuck in also-ran status for 20 years now.

[calumniate]

Let's keep andersson and let him walk for nothing because Maloney thinks we need to compete this year

Frig.. it's almost like Maloney yearns for Treliving

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Easy to lean in and wait when you're counting the money from those cheques Murray keeps sending you.

But seriously I think the whole minority vs majority thing is quite skewed. I don't think this is a scenario where there is a vocal minority and quiet majority.

There are a very vocal minority that believe the team needs to tank right now, fire Edwards, etc.

But I actually think there is a quiet majority that wants the team to rebuild, wants them to get high picks, and actually take a different approach than usual.

And then I think there is a group that actually wants the team to try to push to be competitive now, and I think that's your actual quiet minority, and in no way is a representative of the base. But what Maloney said actually kind of pushes more to what this latter group wants.

I certainly don't think there is a quiet majority out there that is happy with what Maloney said last week. At best all the defenders can come up with is "He's not really giving insight into anything, he's just saying they aren't quitting to keep the casual fans happy"

Honestly this whole quiet majority thing is just a different angle to the whole "Tier 1" fan thing that Lowe said years ago that we all laughed and criticized him for.

I would say that there is not really any fans that I know of that want them to compete right now, certainly not informed fans. They have not tried to compete for 3 years and I don't see any fans being upset about that. They have been rebuilding for 3 years.

The part that confuses me is the taking a different approcch. To me that different approach started when Conroy took over and the team more or less decided to not seriously try to compete. Teams that are trying to compete actually meet Lindholm's demand (the same way that the Wild met Kaprizov's and actually paid him far more than what he could make on the open market). That would be how you would try to compete if you were doing things the same way, especially with the large amount of cap space the Flames had available.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by calumniate

Let's keep andersson and let him walk for nothing because Maloney thinks we need to compete this year

Frig.. it's almost like Maloney yearns for Treliving

Reading the CJ mailbag on the Athletic it sure sounds like Treliving is firmly on the hot seat. If they miss the playoffs he is almost certainly out. It felt like the eastern media loved the summer of Brad but seeing the state of the flames and what he did to the Leafs I see them pulling the pin if they don’t turn it around.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Reading the CJ mailbag on the Athletic it sure sounds like Treliving is firmly on the hot seat. If they miss the playoffs he is almost certainly out. It felt like the eastern media loved the summer of Brad but seeing the state of the flames and what he did to the Leafs I see them pulling the pin if they don’t turn it around.

I've said this before, but even if you didn't agree you could see the argument in favour of most of the moves Treliving made here. You could see the reason he wanted Neal, or even Brouwer. You could see why he didn't offer more the Gaudreau coming out of the bubble seasons. I knew why he wanted Hamonic, even though it was a dumb trade, especially in hindsight.

Some of the ones in Toronto I can't see where the argument in favour exists at all.

[Freeway]

35-year lease locks them into lease payments to the city over the next 35 years, though. And they're in a better building with better revenue generating potential, but also likely with higher operating considerations than the 'Dome typically had.


It cuts both ways.

[TheIronMaiden]

The Flames are generally doing exactly what I want them to do since Conroy took over. It is tough for me to be upset. I feel like all this uproar is more a symptom that cheering for a bottom feeder is not really interesting.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Freeway

I think when your first several years of franchise ownership are a white-knuckle ride to keep things afloat due to forces beyond your control, it leaves some scar tissue.

Yeah, I've been thinking this for a while. That the 'just win and get in' mentality is about titrating steady hope instead of reverting to covered upper bowl seats and nana knitting in the lower bowl asking fans cheering to be quiet.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Freeway

I think when your first several years of franchise ownership are a white-knuckle ride to keep things afloat due to forces beyond your control, it leaves some scar tissue.

Originally Posted by Freeway

35-year lease locks them into lease payments to the city over the next 35 years, though. And they're in a better building with better revenue generating potential, but also likely with higher operating considerations than the 'Dome typically had.


It cuts both ways.

Really? Murray has been in business for a very long time. He's sitting on his share of a $2 billion asset. This is not the business it was 30 years ago.

Yeah sure it's easy as fans to make financial decisions when it's not our money. Except of course that the Flames ask for taxpayer money to help them out.

Asking the Flames to pay a small portion of the costs for a new arena isn't really a cuts both ways type escenario for me.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Really? Murray has been in business for a very long time. He's sitting on his share of a $2 billion asset. This is not the business it was 30 years ago.

Yeah sure it's easy as fans to make financial decisions when it's not our money. Except of course that the Flames ask for taxpayer money to help them out.

Asking the Flames to pay a small portion of the costs for a new arena isn't really a cuts both ways type escenario for me.

I agree, it's a business that should pay for itself. The arena deals have been a slippery slope for a lot of years now, in a lot of cities. The trouble is that when Katz makes a deal like he did, CSEC feels entitled to ask for what they did. And Calgary feels pressure to keep up. It'd be nice to tell sports teams to shove it, but that takes a lot of fortitude on the part of governments. And none have had it, from any political perspective.

[Beninho]

Too many decision makers creates organizational paralysis from my own personal experience. I never really understood why certain teams, currently the Flames and the Canucks also, need a elder statesman overseeing the gm when the situation for the Flames does not seem overly complicated. Other teams dealing with the Flames must feel either confused or annoyed as there are clearly too many chefs in the kitchen and no one knows who the shot caller is.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Too many decision makers creates organizational paralysis from my own personal experience. I never really understood why certain teams, currently the Flames and the Canucks also, need a elder statesman overseeing the gm when the situation for the Flames does not seem overly complicated. Other teams dealing with the Flames must feel either confused or annoyed as there are clearly too many chefs in the kitchen and no one knows who the shot caller is.

It might be "old man shouting at clouds" but I never understood why a team needs a POHO. It's just another layer. Half the time it means they don't trust the GM, half the times it means there's an old dude they wanted to give a no responsibility job (often the previous GM).

Maloney was interim GM after Treliving left. If they wanted him in charge they could have left him there, like Feaster (LOL). But they chose Conroy and I think they gave Maloney the PHO job to keep him occupied and not demote him back to pro scouting (which he wasn't good at based on the Flames' pro talent evaluations between 2016 and 2020 or so).

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I agree, it's a business that should pay for itself. The arena deals have been a slippery slope for a lot of years now, in a lot of cities. The trouble is that when Katz makes a deal like he did, CSEC feels entitled to ask for what they did. And Calgary feels pressure to keep up. It'd be nice to tell sports teams to shove it, but that takes a lot of fortitude on the part of governments. And none have had it, from any political perspective.

Yeah it's a hot potato for sure and I fully acknowledge that it was unrealistic to think Calgary would be the one to take a stand on this.

But we should acknowledge that pro sports valuations have changed the game and with the proliferation of multi billionaires and PE money, owners have the ability to monetize their assets. The Flames alone have provided Edwards with the kind of wealth most of us will never dream of.

At the very minimum, let's not spend a second talking about their higher operating costs on a new facility largely built for them by the taxpayers.