I've heard some world leaders refer to the Coalition of the Willing when referring to the supporters of Ukraine. With a simpleton like Trump, that is too nuanced or wishy washy
They need to rebrand and rename the Ukraine side.
Coalition of the Wealthy or Team Freedom
Or hold a huge conference at Mar-a-lago. Germany, UK, France, Canada, Japan, Australia, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Poland, Spain, Italy. All the presidents and PM's at Trump's property. Tell him it's like Yalta in WW2. And then rebrand the good guys as the Mar-a-lago Group.
And rename the Russians as well. Mordor fits, but it's too nerdy. Maybe reuse Axis of Evil. Russian Project. Don't they call subsidized housing the Projects in American cities? Trump doesn't like poor people, so use Project. And China supports Russia so throw that in too. The Russia-China Project.
Yeah, it's a stupid idea. But banality is where the US government lives. Meet them there
Mar-a-lago Group vs Russia-China Project. It would work. Trump doesn't respond to arguments or logic or values. He's simple and crass. Work with it instead of appealing to his better angels, he doesn't have any
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Plett25 For This Useful Post:
"This so-called ‘peace plan’ has real problems, and I am highly skeptical it will achieve peace," said Senator Roger Wicker of Mississippi, the Republican chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. "Ukraine should not be forced to give up its lands to one of the world’s most flagrant war criminals in Vladimir Putin."
Senator Mike Rounds, a Republican, told reporters at a conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia, on Saturday that Rubio had called him and other senators and suggested that the plan was delivered by Russia to the U.S. and sent to Ukraine. "It is not our recommendation, it is not our plan," Rounds said.
But Rubio later posted on social media that the proposal was authored by Washington. "It is based on input from the Russian side," Rubio wrote on X. "But it is also based on previous and ongoing input from Ukraine."
Even Trump in his wishy washy way yesterday was suggesting that this deal isn’t a take it or leave it offer. It sure make you wonder wtf is going on.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
It could be the Russian sympathizers in Trump's cabinet are playing fast and loose with Dementia Don and getting him to send over the Russian proposal. Maybe they figured he won't call them on it because it would reveal how far gone he actually is.
JOINT STATEMENT ON UNITED STATES-UKRAINE
MEETING
On 23 November 2025, representatives of the United States and Ukraine met in Geneva for discussions on the U.S. peace proposal. The talks were constructive, focused, and respectful, underscoring the shared commitment to achieving a just and lasting peace.
Both sides agreed the consultations were highly productive. The discussions showed meaningful progress toward aligning positions and identifying clear next steps. They reaffirmed that any future agreement must fully uphold Ukraine's sovereignty and deliver a sustainable and just peace. As a result of the discussions, the parties drafted an updated and refined peace framework.
The Ukrainian delegation reaffirmed its gratitude for the steadfast commitment of the United States and, personally, President Donald J. Trump for their tireless efforts aimed at ending the war and the loss of life.
Ukraine and the United States agreed to continue intensive work on joint proposals in the coming days. They will also remain in close contact with their European partners as the process advances.
Final decisions under this framework will be made by the Presidents of Ukraine and the United States.
Both sides reiterated their readiness to continue working together to secure a peace that ensures Ukraine's security, stability, and reconstruction.
This was released today, so the other agreement is not the one.
Russian military bloggers are openly worried about the situation on the left bank of the Dnipro in Kherson. Ukrainian forces now have fire control over key logistics routes in Oleshky and Kinburn Spit. https://twitter.com/user/status/1992969088402870677
In the industrial zone of Zelenograd in Russia’s Moscow region, an urgent evacuation was announced, supposedly due to a missile attack. Students and staff of the Moscow Institute of Electronics are being directed to shelters. https://twitter.com/user/status/1992970199738282098
Trump does not care about Ukrainian sovereignty or democracy. Trump does not frame this war as one between good vs evil, democrats vs autocrats, or the colonized vs the imperialists. He just wants the war to end so he can take credit. https://twitter.com/user/status/1992962676344168723
In Russia, an alleged veteran of the Battle of Stalingrad told Putin that: "We fought so that you, your children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren would always have a clear, peaceful sky above your heads." https://twitter.com/user/status/1992862915813065118
The post is from Alexander Dugin in telegram, the Kremlin's chief ideologue, a self-proclaimed "intellectual," a prominent russian nazi, and a happy father. https://twitter.com/user/status/1992632966762348696
The worse things get for Russia on the battlefield & economically, the more Putin and his allies and sycophants abroad will push propaganda, "negotiations", and threats. Don’t mistake it for any real interest in peace. Putin needs war and only Russia losing will end it. https://twitter.com/user/status/1992676792579346871
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Cheese For This Useful Post:
how ever this ends Zelensky is dead after the war, it's probably only the war that is keeping him alive, Russia will hunt him down even after Putin is gone
I was thinking about this the other day.
No matter what, Zelensky is a dead man. Might be Ukrainian traitors who do it, it might be Moscow assassins, or just a nobody who has been brainwashed by Russian propaganda. But someone will do it regardless of the outcome of the war and regardless of Putin's fate.
Even the US secret service can't keep him safe (assuming Americans stop being allied with Russia in the future).
For those of you interested in the real life video footage and would appreciate a world class documentary, watch this PBS Frontline masterpiece that will most likely win an Academy Award. 2000 Meters to Andriivka is the tale of a specialized unit on the Ukrainian counteroffensive in 2023 and how the goal is to march up 2 km's. It highlights in stunning detail just how senseless this entire war has become.
You can't watch this and not heartbroken for all involved and furious at leaders from everywhere for allowing this to continue to the degree that it is.
Must be watched on a big screen! Footage like this will be remembered for decades to come like those of us who have seen WW1, WW2 and other historic pieces of footage.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to curves2000 For This Useful Post:
You can't watch this and not heartbroken for all involved and furious at leaders from everywhere for allowing this to continue to the degree that it is.
/QUOTE]
There is one (1) leader I am furious at for invading his neighbor.
And yeah, I'm heartbroken for Ukrainians. They got invaded and are defending themselves. Not sure what you mean by "allowing it to continue"?
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to CroFlames For This Useful Post:
You can't watch this and not heartbroken for all involved and furious at leaders from everywhere for allowing this to continue to the degree that it is.
There is one Nation's Leader who is responsible for this war and its continuation.
#### off with this narrative that other Leaders are responsible.
It's bull$hit
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to undercoverbrother For This Useful Post:
The Russian army must be restricted to ensure a lasting peace in Ukraine, — EU's top diplomat Kaja Kallas "If Russia could conquer Ukraine militarily, it would have already done so. Putin cannot achieve his goals on the battlefield, so he will try to negotiate them… The focus must be on what Russia, the aggressor, has to do, not on what Ukraine, the victim, has to sacrifice." https://twitter.com/user/status/1993731717786419586
Russian forces rushed to exploit Ukraine's withdrawal from southern Myrnohrad - and walked straight into a coordinated ambush. Ukrainian command pulled back from exposed southern positions to avoid encirclement. The 35th Marine Brigade held the flanks while the main force repositioned north. https://twitter.com/user/status/1994038003845521554
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Cheese For This Useful Post:
There is one Nation's Leader who is responsible for this war and its continuation.
#### off with this narrative that other Leaders are responsible.
It's bull$hit
It's not that we don't know who invaded Ukraine, we do. It's Putin who will forever be in hell for what has happened but this does not absolve other leaders and their countries for their actions.
Ukraine should have been given a lot more weapons, intelligence and there should have been a lot more support at the start. Lot's of dithering on equipment, decisions, sanctions that really haven't done much. What do people think Ukraine has been asking for all this time?
We are nearly going into the 5th year into this war and Ukraine still doesn't have appropriate air defense or an airforce with associated jets. We have had a ton of military experts tell us that if you can't defend your cities, your skies, than you are in big trouble long term.
There has been a million conferences and meetings about Ukrainian support from global leaders yet Ukraine has been prevented from being able to fully defend itself. There is such a stark contrast to what has been allowed in a basic form between Ukraine and Israel that it's shocking. Different battles I know but come on.
It's a daily battle for basic protection in Ukraine and being prevented from serious offensive tactics.
What appears will likely happen is that we will have a "peace plan" favoring Russia with 100% global leaders allowing it to happen. It will cripple Ukraine's ability to defend in the future while losing valuable territory and Putin will try again in the near future. Global leaders will then be shocked and people will wonder how this happened?? As if proper equipment, intelligence and weaponry in significant quantities did not play a factor.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to curves2000 For This Useful Post:
You can't watch this and not heartbroken for all involved and furious at leaders from everywhere for allowing this to continue to the degree that it is.
/QUOTE]
There is one (1) leader I am furious at for invading his neighbor.
And yeah, I'm heartbroken for Ukrainians. They got invaded and are defending themselves. Not sure what you mean by "allowing it to continue"?
This is pretty much NATO, G7 and the western world vs Putin. A leader who's country is a $2 trillion economy. There are 3 US states with economies larger than 4 Russia's. Elon Musk landed a pay package from a single company for 50% of Russia's economy.
If global leaders REALLY wanted this to end and be done with the BS, sufficient pressure on Russia in various forms could do it quickly. Everybody pretending nothing can be done to end this war other than talking is just fooling themselves.
This is pretty much NATO, G7 and the western world vs Putin. A leader who's country is a $2 trillion economy. There are 3 US states with economies larger than 4 Russia's. Elon Musk landed a pay package from a single company for 50% of Russia's economy.
If global leaders REALLY wanted this to end and be done with the BS, sufficient pressure on Russia in various forms could do it quickly. Everybody pretending nothing can be done to end this war other than talking is just fooling themselves.
It's not really just those groups versus Putin. It's versus Putin plus countries that enable Putin like India, China, and Iran. If even just China put pressure on Russia on top of the other groups you mentioned, I am doubtful that the war would still be going on.
Anyway, the goal isn't simply ending the war, it's to bring peace and security. They are related, but not exactly the same thing. The war could end tomorrow, but it's the conditions on how it ends that determines peace and security. A Russian victory would not be helpful in reaching those bigger picture goals.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to FlamesAddiction For This Useful Post:
It's not really just those groups versus Putin. It's versus Putin plus countries that enable Putin like India, China, and Iran. If even just China put pressure on Russia on top of the other groups you mentioned, I am doubtful that the war would still be going on.
Anyway, the goal isn't simply ending the war, it's to bring peace and security. They are related, but not exactly the same thing. The war could end tomorrow, but it's the conditions on how it ends that determines peace and security. A Russian victory would not be helpful in reaching those bigger picture goals.
Maybe the goal is the complete defeat of Russia.
Once and for all.
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
What does that even mean? The Soviet Union was utterly defeated and collapsed in the late 80's. They were defeated so completely that it led to years of internal chaos and instability. This ultimately led to a strongman taking the reins.
You can also look at post-WWI Germany as an example of a country that was completely defeated.
I will agree that Putin and his regime needs to be completely defeated, if that's what you mean. But if so, Russia needs to be supported by the West to rebuild so they don't continue the cycle.
Or do you mean nuke the bastards?
edit- on second reading I'm pretty sure you meant totally defeated in the conflict with Ukraine, which I can get behind. Hopefully, there's a plan by the western nations about what to do when that happens.
Last edited by Red Slinger; 11-28-2025 at 09:18 AM.
What does that even mean? The Soviet Union was utterly defeated and collapsed in the late 80's. They were defeated so completely that it led to years of internal chaos and instability. This ultimately led to a strongman taking the reins.
You can also look at post-WWI Germany as an example of a country that was completely defeated.
I will agree that Putin and his regime needs to be completely defeated, if that's what you mean. But if so, Russia needs to be supported by the West to rebuild so they don't continue the cycle.
Or do you mean nuke the bastards?
Sometimes yeah nukes................but that's stupid.
I want Putin and his regime to be completely and utterly eradicated from the face of the earth.
Then Russia rebuilt with the help of the West.
Germany is interesting; twice it was completely defeated.
Once ostracized and once helped to rebuild.
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
The Following User Says Thank You to undercoverbrother For This Useful Post:
Ukrainian soldiers on the eastern front called the original Trump peace plan capitulation and said they would refuse orders to abandon positions still held in Donetsk if issued https://twitter.com/user/status/1995122502029185464
