Cosentino ranks Verhoeff #1 in November rankings.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

I would, in his draft year he was typically the best player on the ice including at the WJ's.

And the way he climbed the rankings on most lists. I don't think his name was a factor.

[Calgary4LIfe]

it is always tough to say when it comes to defence early in the 1st round. For a while, a lot of people just took it as: "Defencemen are more difficult to translate, so take the center/forward". Then Makar and Hughes come around. "Take the defencemen!"


I am just happy that McKenna, Verhooef and Stenberg all look like franchise-level players. Hopefully the Flames win the lottery and get to pick from those 3 (or perhaps another riser - maybe Lawrence takes off and stops being considered 'maybe 1st line C, possibly elite 2nd line C". Or someone else.


I am just happy that the Flames bottom-out in a good year. Last year would have been great (Schaefer!), the year before that was fine too - lots of Cs. Schaefer - McKenna/Verhoeff/Stenberg, and Dupont/Joseph/Meyer in 2027. Great time to bottom-out. Much better than a series of drafts stuck together in which other teams bottomed-out in.


Flames will make right call here. I haven't decided who I want yet, but I still lean to McKenna and then Stenberg, but I will be happy adding Verhoeff. Having 2 top-end defencemen playing 25-27 minutes a night would help tilt the ice a little. McKenna's ability to make plays out of nothing helps everyone on the ice and be a LOT of fun to watch every game, and Stenberg will be a #1 play-driving center.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dino7c

defense score points these days too though
I would argue Makar is the best player in the NHL when it comes to W's and L's

Makar also plays defense. Parekh is probably the biggest boom or bust prospect we've seen in years. While offensively his potential puts him in the stratosphere, he will never earn the trust to get the ice-time needed to get there if he doesn't learn to play defense at the NHL level.

So in the hypothetical situation of who would you rather have, McKenna/Parekh, or Verhoeff/Iginla, I'd pick the latter. Comparing defensemen, Verhoeff seems like the better bet over Parekh to carry a team in all situations. This shouldn't even be controversial considering that Parekh was a 9th OV pick and not even the first defenseman picked in his draft year, while Verhoeff is in the conversation to go 1st OA in the McKenna draft.

So it comes down to McKenna versus Iginla. McKenna has the edge there based on expectations, but I think a top pairing RD is a bigger factor. Plus if Iginla is possibly projecting to be a center now, that helps.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Yeah, any of those big 3 would be great, with a slight preference toward the forwards.

I'm a little less enticed by Belchetz and even Lawrence. Belchetz seems like a guy with a frame that allows him to dominate a teenager's league, but doesnt do it at a McKenna/Bedard level, and that advantage will disappear at the pro level. Lawrence while solid also isn't an elite producer. They look like 1B types that could go 10-20 in some years. Good, star potential, but I'm not sure I see a superstar or franchise player ceiling.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I thought it was the middle and defense.

Defense alone does not win championships, especially in the modern nhl where 6-5 games are more commonplace than ever.

Cup Winner - Goals Against
2025 Florida Panthers - 7th GA
2024 Florida Panthers - 1st GA
2023 Vegas Knights - 11th
2022 Colorado Avs - 9th
2021 Tampa Lightning - 6th
2020 Tampa Lightning- 10th
2019 - St Louis Blues - 5th


Seems like it kind of does? No alone it won't win, but neither will offence.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Yeah, any of those big 3 would be great, with a slight preference toward the forwards.

I'm a little less enticed by Belchetz and even Lawrence. Belchetz seems like a guy with a frame that allows him to dominate a teenager's league, but doesnt do it at a McKenna/Bedard level, and that advantage will disappear at the pro level. Lawrence while solid also isn't an elite producer. They look like 1B types that could go 10-20 in some years. Good, star potential, but I'm not sure I see a superstar or franchise player ceiling.

Way off base on Belchetz. Not sure what tools Lawrence is missing other than huge size that he couldnt be a star player.

[dammage79]

Defense wins championships. Please kindly reference the modern era Edmonton Oilers.

A team that has scored at will but built so lopsided towards offense they still have not reached the summit of a championship.

That being said, if you're the Flames and you're the worst scoring team in town, you take all the offense you can get.

And by the time a McKenna is in full swing they'll probably have a new system for him to play in.

I wish this was a draft where the best player is a center. Flames so desperately need that. But the Flames also have a solid developing d corps on the way as well. So while Verhoeff could be the best player available, is it really prudent to skip over something the Flames are desperate to acquire? I don't think so.

Take the most potent FW available. Even if it's a winger.

[albertGQ]

That’s why I want to finish last

Yes, we have only 25% chance of drafting first. But we also have a 100% chance at drafting any of those three studs

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

And the way he climbed the rankings on most lists. I don't think his name was a factor.

I meant his name is a factor for us talking about him now in the context of the question...a bunch of players from that draft could have been included.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Cup Winner - Goals Against
2025 Florida Panthers - 7th GA
2024 Florida Panthers - 1st GA
2023 Vegas Knights - 11th
2022 Colorado Avs - 9th
2021 Tampa Lightning - 6th
2020 Tampa Lightning- 10th
2019 - St Louis Blues - 5th


Seems like it kind of does? No alone it won't win, but neither will offence.

Looking at the opposite side of center ice...

Cup Winner - Goals For
2025 Florida Panthers - 15th GF
2024 Florida Panthers - 7th GF
2023 Vegas Knights - 14th
2022 Colorado Avs - 4th
2021 Tampa Lightning - 8th
2020 Tampa Lightning- 1st
2019 - St Louis Blues - 15th


=================================


Edit: Actually a more apt metric would be Goals for and against per playoff game.

Cup Winner - Playoffs Goals Against per Game
2025 Florida Panthers - 1st GA/GP
2024 Florida Panthers - 6th GA/GP
2023 Vegas Knights - 4th
2022 Colorado Avs - 3rd
2021 Tampa Lightning - 1st
2020 Tampa Lightning- 3rd
2019 - St Louis Blues - 7th

Cup Winner - Playoffs Goals For per Game
2025 Florida Panthers - 1st GF/GP
2024 Florida Panthers - 4th GF/GP
2023 Vegas Knights - 1st
2022 Colorado Avs - 1st
2021 Tampa Lightning - 2nd
2020 Tampa Lightning- 4th
2019 - St Louis Blues - 6th

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I can assure you with certain definity we are not clawing our way back to the 25th overall pick.

How?

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by jayswin

How?

Getting to 7th overall in the NHL standings to get the 25th pick in the draft seems rather unlikely at this point. The Vegas pick could be 25th though.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by jayswin

How?

Because the team does not have the horses nor the coaching to get there. You would have a better chance of winning Lottomax jackpot twice in a row then the Flames do of accomplishing that. It isn't happening. If you think they do well you are are on an island there. Maybe with Maloney.

[Roko]

Stenberg is a winger to clarify for C4L up there. Though I’d be interested to see him play centre as his game looks pretty mature.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Because the team does not have the horses nor the coaching to get there. You would have a better chance of winning Lottomax jackpot twice in a row then the Flames do of accomplishing that. It isn't happening. If you think they do well you are are on an island there. Maybe with Maloney.

When I first read that I thought you were referring to 25th overall in the league not picking 25th with their 1st. Perhaps others made that skimming mistake?

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Cup Winner - Goals Against
2025 Florida Panthers - 7th GA
2024 Florida Panthers - 1st GA
2023 Vegas Knights - 11th
2022 Colorado Avs - 9th
2021 Tampa Lightning - 6th
2020 Tampa Lightning- 10th
2019 - St Louis Blues - 5th


Seems like it kind of does? No alone it won't win, but neither will offence.

Florida has won the last 2 cups and they don't have an elite defenseman - they have a bunch of good ones (and some who were picked high, but no elite guys)

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Florida has won the last 2 cups and they don't have an elite defenseman - they have a bunch of good ones (and some who were picked high, but no elite guys)

They have Bob who has been outstanding in 3 consecutive playoffs. Forsling is also elite at shutdown but that wasn't your point.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

When I first read that I thought you were referring to 25th overall in the league not picking 25th with their 1st. Perhaps others made that skimming mistake?

Possibly.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Looking at the opposite side of center ice...

Cup Winner - Goals For
2025 Florida Panthers - 15th GF
2024 Florida Panthers - 7th GF
2023 Vegas Knights - 14th
2022 Colorado Avs - 4th
2021 Tampa Lightning - 8th
2020 Tampa Lightning- 1st
2019 - St Louis Blues - 15th


=================================


Edit: Actually a more apt metric would be Goals for and against per playoff game.

Cup Winner - Playoffs Goals Against per Game
2025 Florida Panthers - 1st GA/GP
2024 Florida Panthers - 6th GA/GP
2023 Vegas Knights - 4th
2022 Colorado Avs - 3rd
2021 Tampa Lightning - 1st
2020 Tampa Lightning- 3rd
2019 - St Louis Blues - 7th

Cup Winner - Playoffs Goals For per Game
2025 Florida Panthers - 1st GF/GP
2024 Florida Panthers - 4th GF/GP
2023 Vegas Knights - 1st
2022 Colorado Avs - 1st
2021 Tampa Lightning - 2nd
2020 Tampa Lightning- 4th
2019 - St Louis Blues - 6th

As this shows, It isn’t an either/or situation. Teams needs to have both great defence and great offence. Can’t just have one or the other.

Flames have better D at the moment and sorely lacking on O. This is where the biggest need is and needs to be addressed.