11-20-2025, 09:54 PM
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#2101
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe
The whole "ownership is really bad in Calgary" argument is really sad, actually.
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It's not personal. It's business.
Chicago won 3 Cups between 2010-2020.
In October 2020, I believe they wrote a letter to fans that they are undergoing a rebuild.
We have Maloney mumbling at a loss of words without a clear direction from ownership. Fans deserve better.
Now they are back on the upswing with Conor Bedard leading the charge along with a plethora of other young prospects.
As a Flames fan, ownership has failed miserably with their role in this and I would be more than happy if we got new ownership (individual) not as a group. There is no accountability. The country club starts at the top.
https://twitter.com/user/status/1318620509832138753
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11-20-2025, 09:58 PM
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#2102
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InternationalVillager
It's not personal. It's business.
Chicago won 3 Cups between 2010-2020.
In October 2020, I believe they wrote a letter to fans that they are undergoing a rebuild.
We have Maloney mumbling at a loss of words without a clear direction from ownership. Fans deserve better.
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OK, I get it now. You've never heard the saying, ‘Actions speak louder than words.’ You pay no attention to actions at all. To you, a team isn't rebuilding unless and until it formally announces that to the fans.
So San Jose isn't rebuilding, Utah didn't rebuild, L.A., Anaheim, Detroit never rebuilt, neither did Montreal. The Oilers certainly never rebuilt, even when they drafted #1OA three times in a row.
Have any teams ever done a rebuild except Chicago and the Rangers? ’Cos those are the only two I've ever heard of making a formal announcement about it.
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11-20-2025, 10:03 PM
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#2103
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
OK, I get it now. You've never heard the saying, ‘Actions speak louder than words.’ You pay no attention to actions at all. To you, a team isn't rebuilding unless and until it formally announces that to the fans.
So San Jose isn't rebuilding, Utah didn't rebuild, L.A., Anaheim, Detroit never rebuilt, neither did Montreal. The Oilers certainly never rebuilt, even when they drafted #1OA three times in a row.
Have any teams ever done a rebuild except Chicago and the Rangers? ’Cos those are the only two I've ever heard of making a formal announcement about it.
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Not the point.
But here...
San Jose Sharks:
https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/...ebuilding-plan
This is their 2015 rebuild plan. They talked about another one when they hired Mike Grier in 2023...
You want me to go fetch more?
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11-20-2025, 10:06 PM
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#2104
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InternationalVillager
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So the Sharks announced a rebuild 10 years ago. The very next season they went to the Stanley Cup Finals, followed by three more playoff appearances.
What, teams are supposed to announce rebuilds four years in advance of when they start missing the playoffs?
Not buying that as an example at all.
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11-20-2025, 10:08 PM
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#2105
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
OK, I get it now. You've never heard the saying, ‘Actions speak louder than words.’ You pay no attention to actions at all. To you, a team isn't rebuilding unless and until it formally announces that to the fans.
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I'm not really disagreeing with your point but I do think it raises a different question.
Why do the Flames feel this need to pretend something is going on that's not?
As you say the actions (salary cap space, trading UFAs, etc) speak to a rebuild, but why try so hard to act like it's not happening.
Why is the word such a foreign word that people in the organization are clearly not supposed to say?
Why are they always very protected about shopping players when teams like Nashville and St Louis can come right out and say "we are looking to move players" while the Flames feed their media stories about "we can only trade Kadri and Coleman if they ask to be moved".
If they are rebuilding as most here are that defend the organization say they are, then just come right out and say it.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 11-20-2025 at 10:12 PM.
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11-20-2025, 10:09 PM
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#2106
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
So the Sharks announced a rebuild 10 years ago. The very next season they went to the Stanley Cup Finals, followed by three more playoff appearances.
What, teams are supposed to announce rebuilds four years in advance of when they start missing the playoffs?
Not buying that as an example at all.
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https://www.pressdemocrat.com/2025/0...allenges-loom/
Here's Grier talking about rebuild.
I know it may come as a shock to you but competent ownership groups and management keep their lines of communication with their fan base open and honest with a clear sense of direction as to where they are headed.
Personally, I have confirmed that the Flames are heading for a rebuild or already in one. I have posted that on this site.
But it's REALLY REALLY strange how NO ONE in management is allowed to publicly state that or talk as they are.
That's quite the muzzle action that Murray's got going on.
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11-20-2025, 10:11 PM
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#2107
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InternationalVillager
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Was it a formal letter announcing a rebuild to the fans? No? Then it's not an example of what you were talking about earlier.
Quote:
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I know it may come as a shock to you but competent ownership groups and management keep their lines of communication with their fan base open and honest with a clear sense of direction as to where they are headed.
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Some do. Some don't. So what?
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11-20-2025, 10:12 PM
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#2108
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InternationalVillager
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I don't disagree with the broader point that the Flames are not messaging this well, and i think under-rating the fan base's tolerance for a re-build.
But that's a weird example. The article is legit, not questioning that. But following that off-season they went all the way to the finals led by Thronton, Pavelski, Burns, Marleau, Vlasic, etc. The team had a young Thomas Hertl and that's about it. And that's largely they core they went with for a few more seasons, and even added other vetes to the equation like Erik Karlsson.
Moreover, they drafted Meier #9 in 2015 after that bad season, but around that draft they drafted 27th the year before, then following 2015, they would draft 60th (their first was traded for Martin Jones I think), 19th, 21st , 48th (their first which was 29th was traded to Buffalo for Evander Kane), and 31st.
I have no idea what their owner was saying when he talked about a re-build being underway or having a young team. That simply wasn't the case.
If anything it was a re-tool.
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11-20-2025, 10:16 PM
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#2109
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18
If they are rebuilding as most here that defend the organization say they are, then just come right out and say it.
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At this point I think they're just trolling people. It's blatantly obvious that they're rebuilding, and right near the bottom of a massive teardown – if you look at what they actually do.
Remember, this is an organization that, as a matter of corporate policy, refused to release terms of new player contracts for years after sites like Capfriendly were around, and decades after the NHLPA started releasing that information to the media. I don't know why they are the way they are, but they clearly don't believe in telling people information that can be easily found anywhere else.
Maybe the owners are all related to Calvin Coolidge. I couldn't tell you. But I find it helpful to ignore everything they say if it isn't related to a specific action they have already taken.
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11-20-2025, 10:17 PM
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#2110
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
Some do. Some don't. So what?
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I think I've made my point.
The Flames are a business who's primary objective is to sell an entertainment product and their #1 stakeholder are the fans. How ridiculous is it that the fans are kept out of the loop? Any basic business book would tell you that is a ridiculous approach and that's how you run an incompetent organization and a terrible environment. You need to trust your management to do what is right without having shackles on.
You know people in the Flames organization are literally on a media ban for talking about a potential rebuild? They're not allowed to say the word. There's repercussions for doing so. Like these guys are professional hockey guys that have been around the game for decades and you treat them like that? They're your management team. I can't believe that they can work like that under the conditions the franchise ownership gives them. But it's no surprise that Flames GM spot wasn't really highly coveted either after BT left. People don't want to work for Murray - as simple as that. They'd rather avoid it if they can.
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11-20-2025, 10:22 PM
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#2111
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InternationalVillager
I think I've made my point.
The Flames are a business who's primary objective is to sell an entertainment product and their #1 stakeholder are the fans. How ridiculous is it that the fans are kept out of the loop? Any basic business book would tell you that is a ridiculous approach and that's how you run an incompetent organization and a terrible environment. You need to trust your management to do what is right without having shackles on.
You know people in the Flames organization are literally on a media ban for talking about a potential rebuild? They're not allowed to say the word. There's repercussions for doing so. Like these guys are professional hockey guys that have been around the game for decades and you treat them like that? They're your management team. I can't believe that they can work like that under the conditions the franchise ownership gives them. But it's no surprise that Flames GM spot wasn't really highly coveted either after BT left. People don't want to work for Murray - as simple as that. They'd rather avoid it if they can.
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There is no point trying to argue, you make good points. I just think some posters in here are friends or family with ownership.
It is the only explanation, they will never criticize them.
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11-20-2025, 10:22 PM
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#2112
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InternationalVillager
But it's no surprise that Flames GM spot wasn't really highly coveted either after BT left. People don't want to work for Murray - as simple as that. They'd rather avoid it if they can.
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You mean this would be a large, desirable U.S. market with a warm climate and a big budget, where it's easy to attract free agents and players don't put you on their no-trade lists, if only Murray Edwards wasn't such a meanie?
Of course the Flames' GM job ‘wasn't really highly coveted’. It's one of the most disadvantageous spots in the league to be a GM, no matter who owns the team.
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11-20-2025, 10:30 PM
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#2113
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
At this point I think they're just trolling people. It's blatantly obvious that they're rebuilding, and right near the bottom of a massive teardown – if you look at what they actually do.
Remember, this is an organization that, as a matter of corporate policy, refused to release terms of new player contracts for years after sites like Capfriendly were around, and decades after the NHLPA started releasing that information to the media. I don't know why they are the way they are, but they clearly don't believe in telling people information that can be easily found anywhere else.
Maybe the owners are all related to Calvin Coolidge. I couldn't tell you. But I find it helpful to ignore everything they say if it isn't related to a specific action they have already taken.
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Well if they are trolling their own fanbase that's not very smart either.
I do think they have taken some actions that are similar to a rebuild (trading UFAs, low salary spend) but I personally think they are still only half committed to a rebuild especially these last 18 months.
I do think up to and including the Mangiapane trade they were leaning more rebuild. It still wasnt a full scorched earth rebuild, but it was more of that "ethical rebuild" where they weren't going to trade all veterans, but it wasn't the end of the world if they lost.
But the 24-25 season changed plans for sure; and it's partially why there has been very little movement in the org this season.
The reality is if they were even in 9th place right now trading pieces like Coleman and Kadri wouldn't even be in the back of their mind, and to me that means you're not actually fully committed to a rebuild, because if you're fully committed to a rebuild your valuable assets that are 35 years old would 100% be on the table regardless of if you're 32nd or 17th.
Once again it's why the whole things feels very reactive instead of proactive.
They do have a general direction of getting younger and building through the draft, but they aren't really trying to accelerate things in either direction. They aren't making moves to try to win now, but also aren't making the tougher decisions to get worse now and potentially accelerate the rebuild either for players that aren't pending UFAs.
For the most part they are kind of just letting things take their natural course, waiting until players are in their UFA seasons, making offers they deem as fair, and then being willing to move the players once the contract situation becomes clear.
So it's still a rebuild...but also doesn't fully feel like they are fully committed to it.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 11-20-2025 at 10:51 PM.
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11-20-2025, 10:35 PM
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#2114
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
You mean this would be a large, desirable U.S. market with a warm climate and a big budget, where it's easy to attract free agents and players don't put you on their no-trade lists, if only Murray Edwards wasn't such a meanie?
Of course the Flames' GM job ‘wasn't really highly coveted’. It's one of the most disadvantageous spots in the league to be a GM, no matter who owns the team.
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Still think this gets overblown. Players want to play for winners.
In the last 15 years guys like Frolik, Neal, Markstrom, Tanev, Coleman, Kadri, etc all signed here when they were top 5-10 players in their respective free agent classes.
When this team was competitive with a promising young core they had absolutely no issue attracting free agents. Even going back to the Iginla era they had no issue getting free agents to sign here.
Build a solid young core and you become attractive in free agency simple as that.
Florida was seen as one of the worst markets in the NHL for years, they drafted Ekblad, Huberdeau, Barkov and others and had a good young core and all of a sudden it became attractive and people pretend like that was always the case.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 11-20-2025 at 10:39 PM.
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11-20-2025, 10:38 PM
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#2115
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18
Still think this gets overblown. Players want to play for winners.
In the last 15 years guys like Frolik, Neal, Markstrom, Tanev, Coleman, Kadri, etc all signed here when they were top 5-10 players in their respective free agent classes.
When this team was competitive with a promising young core they had absolutely no issue attracting free agents. Even going back to the Iginla era they had no issue getting free agents to sign here.
Build a solid young core and you become attractive in free agency simple as that.
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Flames overpaid almost all of those guys.
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11-20-2025, 10:40 PM
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#2116
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
Flames overpaid almost all of those guys.
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Did they?
The only real contract that's bad in that entire group was Neal, and I think in the end the difference between his contract offer from Vegas and the Flames was the Flames gave him an extra year on the deal.
In the end everyone overpays in free agency when you actually sign a player. The difference are markets like Buffalo and others where you can't even overpay players. But even then if they were a true contender it wouldn't be an issue.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 11-20-2025 at 10:42 PM.
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11-20-2025, 10:47 PM
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#2117
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#1 Goaltender
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Like it or not this place is a very small sample of Flames fans. Of the posters here there is probably less than 50 that seem to be personally offended that the Flames haven't announced to them that they expect to be a s##tty team for the next 5 year on purpose.
That represents a very small portion of the fan base. I think they are hoping to keep the random fans coming to games and hoping the die-hards (ie fans posting on message boards) see the trading of a 1st line centre, #1 goaltender, couple of top Dmen, the lack of free agent signings, the huge amount of cap room available and number of draft picks and recognize they are getting what they want. Maybe they didn't see the small vocal minority needing a statement of tank to be placated, or most likely they just don't care.
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11-20-2025, 10:50 PM
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#2118
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
Flames overpaid almost all of those guys.
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Free agents go to the team that pays the most ? News at 11
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11-20-2025, 10:54 PM
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#2120
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18
Did they?
The only real contract that's bad in that entire group was Neal, and I think in the end the difference between his contract offer from Vegas and the Flames was the Flames gave him an extra year on the deal.
In the end everyone overpays in free agency when you actually sign a player. The difference are markets like Buffalo and others where you can't even overpay players. But even then if they were a true contender it wouldn't be an issue.
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Everyone said Kadri was an overpay at the time. Especially in this site. And he's a guy that actually prefers Canada. Coleman was also called an overpay for a middle 6er.
They didn't overpay for some others but they weren't really top UFAs either.
Stone turned them down flat. Gaudreau took less elsewhere.
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