Hunt and Morton up; Kerins Down

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Exactly how I feel about the situation.


I also think that simply rotating through a bunch of prospects IS beneficial to their development and getting a feel for how big the next step really is. People are upset about "Kerins not getting a real opportunity" - maybe this wasn't about opportunity, but more about rewarding a prospect that has been playing well, as well as giving him another taste of the NHL as part of his development.


None of us know the perfect way to develop a prospect, and every prospect is different. Let's just see what happens before we get our pitchforks and torches and overreact.

Someone asked me how Kerins played before he was demoted.

I said something like "great when he gets to the puck, but often he was a bit late arriving there". Hearing Huska and the pace comments I think that's the team's concern too.

I do think we see him again though.

And I want a longer look to make sure they don't lose a bottom six option for nothing.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

That's a reach no? We can debate if he got enough games (I would have also liked to see him get a couple more) but within the 2 games he got, he was playing with good players and received a good amount of ice-time. 8th amongst forwards against Winnipeg and 5th most against San Jose. So within the games he did get, he got a good look. Unlike say when Philips was called up under Sutter and he got very little ice time.

He may not have gotten enough games, but within the games, it was a real opportunity.

I think the only real justification though is if they did have a plan from the start to give Kerins the 2 home games and then Morton the 2 road games.

If that was the plan then fair ball to Conroy and Huska.

But if that wasn't the plan and they are sending him down even though that line and Kerins himself was very good in those games then that's not a good look IMO.

[Bingo]

Steinberg had a good thought yesterday ... that this is more about taking the opportunity with Honzek out to get both Sharangovich and Zary into the top nine and see how they do.

Sharangovich has them at wits end, and Zary has lost an important step with the knee injuries.

But they have to sort that out.

(paraphrasing)

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

There is a chance too that the Flames really liked what they saw from Kerins. But they also want to see a bunch of other young guys this season. Maybe they thought 'yep, he looks good, we'll bring him up again later. Let's see who else can be part of the future here'.

Not everything has to be negative instantly.

This feels like a reach to me. If Kerins was worth calling up, it was worth giving him atleast 5 games or so.

As for the argument that he is being sent down due to Honzek’s injury, and moving up Zary and Sharangovich, that kind of feels like gymnastics to me. I see room everywhere in this forward group.

I just don’t think Kerins is much of a priority at all for the club. Which is fair enough.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

This feels like a reach to me. If Kerins was worth calling up, it was worth giving him atleast 5 games or so.

As for the argument that he is being sent down due to Honzek’s injury, and moving up Zary and Sharangovich, that kind of feels like gymnastics to me. I see room everywhere in this forward group.

I just don’t think Kerins is much of a priority at all for the club. Which is fair enough.

Well Sharangovich has been scratched. Same with Zary (twice).

Honzek out and Kerins down opens two spots in the top nine that weren't there with a healthy Honzek that had earned a job and wasn't coming out of the lineup.

So the space was needed to get both into a top nine role since one was out and one was on the fourth line.

And given that it came from Steinberg I think it could literally be what the team is thinking.

[Manhattanboy]

I thought Kerins looked pretty good against San Jose.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I thought Kerins looked pretty good against San Jose.

Like Bingo said - good when he had the puck. Late getting to the puck a lot.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

You honestly don't think Conroy, Huska and the rest of the staff have daily meetings on what the lineup is going to be?

You're acting like Huska runs the Flames organization. Simply not true.

They don't. Conroy has said as much. Do they have meetings about who gets a call up? Yes. Does Conroy have anything to do with Huska's lineup? He does not.

[Enoch Root]

This whole Kerins debate is essentially a repeat of the Phillips situation, IMO: a tweener that has looked good in the AHL, and deserves a look in the NHL, but with real questions about their upside. There are those who think he isn't an NHLer, and those who think he is. But, like with the Phillips debate, those who think he is, feel the need to criticize the way the team is handling him, because the team doesn't think as highly of the player as those posters do.

I would like to see him get a shot. I would like to see him turn into a player. But I'm not losing sleep over it, because I don't really think there is a solid NHLer there. Those who think there is, seem to feel he is being treated improperly.

My bet is that a couple years from now, this will have ended similarly to the Phillips situation. And by then there will be a new tweener that fans can be pissed off about.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I am one of the biggest Kerins supporters here, but I am not mad that he got sent down. We need looks at other guys, and Kerins isn't exactly a guy that should be wasted on the 4th line. I do want to see how Morton fares.

I think someone else mentioned that the contract of Kerins is likely taking effect, that Kerins getting sent down without waivers would have been in jeopardy if we didn't send him down within the next few days.

[Enoch Root]

As for the Sharangovich, Zary situation... I think that makes sense. This IS an opportunity to get them into the top 9, and these are assets that they NEED to get going. I would say both are more important than Kerins, in the grand scheme of things. But even if they're not, Kerins can continue to develop in the AHL, for now.

But once you hitch your wagon to a single issue (in this case, Kerins not getting a fair shot), it becomes difficult to separate from that and see that there are other issues that also need to be dealt with, that there are 23 players on the roster.

[442scotty]

To me it seems like Kerins needs at least 10 games to see if he can adapt to the pace difference. You just can’t expect an offensive forward to immediately jell. Hes been playing in the AHL at a slower pace with less talented players. Hes shown the ability to adapt but he needs a decent runway where he doesn’t have to stress out and worry about not getting enough time to show what he can do. Talented players play better with better players. Philips couldn’t move up. That doesn’t mean Kerins will follow the same path.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Can someone clarify the waiver rules with Kerins. It's been mentioned that they may have sent him down now to avoid having to put him on waviers again to get him down there. Is that the case?

[Bingo]

30 days on the roster or 10 games.

Sending him down halts both odometers

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Can someone clarify the waiver rules with Kerins. It's been mentioned that they may have sent him down now to avoid having to put him on waviers again to get him down there. Is that the case?

A quick Google search led me to this:
"After the clearance period expires: A player is waiver-exempt for a period of time after clearing waivers. This is usually for the first 30 days or 10 games, whichever comes first.

If they are moved from one team to another: If a player is claimed by a new team, they are subject to waivers again if they are eventually sent down to the AHL.

If they are loaned to an AHL team: If a player is sent to the AHL without clearing waivers, they must be placed on waivers again if they are later called up to the NHL."

Problem is, I am confused since Kerins was waived well beyond 30 days from the last time he was waived. Maybe someone has better clarification on why he was able to be sent down without going through waivers again.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

A quick Google search led me to this:
"After the clearance period expires: A player is waiver-exempt for a period of time after clearing waivers. This is usually for the first 30 days or 10 games, whichever comes first.

If they are moved from one team to another: If a player is claimed by a new team, they are subject to waivers again if they are eventually sent down to the AHL.

If they are loaned to an AHL team: If a player is sent to the AHL without clearing waivers, they must be placed on waivers again if they are later called up to the NHL."

Problem is, I am confused since Kerins was waived well beyond 30 days from the last time he was waived. Maybe someone has better clarification on why he was able to be sent down without going through waivers again.

That sounds like an AI answer and its not entirely correct. Its 10 games of 30 games on the roster, so if he's sent down, the clock pauses. Since he cleared waivers in the beginning of the season, his clock was reset.


There is no more call-up waivers as the google answer you got indicates.

[GioforPM]

PuckPedia:

In order for a player to be assigned to the minors, they must first clear waivers unless one of the following applies:

The player is still waivers-exempt (see below), or
The player already cleared waivers, and since then has not:
- played in 10 or more cumulative NHL Games, or
- been on an NHL roster for 30 cumulative days.

So there was no super rush to send him down to avoid waivers being in force again, but it would have happened in a few weeks.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This whole Kerins debate is essentially a repeat of the Phillips situation, IMO: a tweener that has looked good in the AHL, and deserves a look in the NHL, but with real questions about their upside. There are those who think he isn't an NHLer, and those who think he is. But, like with the Phillips debate, those who think he is, feel the need to criticize the way the team is handling him, because the team doesn't think as highly of the player as those posters do.

I would like to see him get a shot. I would like to see him turn into a player. But I'm not losing sleep over it, because I don't really think there is a solid NHLer there. Those who think there is, seem to feel he is being treated improperly.

My bet is that a couple years from now, this will have ended similarly to the Phillips situation. And by then there will be a new tweener that fans can be pissed off about.

Phillips is an interesting comparison. I looked at Phillips as a kid who didn't have nearly enough skill to make up for his lack of size, and it wasn't like he was a really elite skater either. He certainly seemed super-skilled coming out of junior, but given how long it took him to get to around a PPG, and the times I watched him play in the AHL and in the NHL (small samples), he just wasn't a super-skilled player at all. Dube, Mangiapane, Pelletier - all higher skilled and faster to a PPG at the AHL level.


Kerins to me has less of knock against him size-wise, but he still is undersized. Maybe he can turn into a Derek Ryan in the long run. I think that's his ceiling, but hopefully he hits beyond it. I think his floor is higher than Phillips, however. The thing that makes me believe that there MIGHT be something there is that he had a slow start to his pro career as he had trouble with his conditioning.


Pros:
Great IQ - You can see this as he seems to know where to go on the ice, and gets touches on the puck and makes smart plays with the puck.
Good hands


Cons:
A little undersized (small con - he isn't tiny)
Skating needs work!


Yes, he took a good step since last season on his skating, but he is still looking slow out there. I think Derek Ryan is the cut-off - he needs to be as mobile as Derek Ryan was - just 'average' to SLIGHTLY above average. Just needs to work on that first step more. I don't think he will stick in the NHL without it. If giants can't stick in the NHL because their first step is bad (or at least slower than average), then I think the same holds true for undersized players.


If you have the hands and IQ of a Tkachuk, you will make it no matter what size you are with bad skating.


I think Byron was the better player that 'got away'. No other real talents have gotten away from Calgary. I am sure some people will bring up Valimaki, but it is just his pedigree that makes people remember him. This organization doesn't leak talent like Buffalo does, and has a pretty good track record of developing players. I am not losing sleep over Kerins either.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Skating needs work!


Yes, he took a good step since last season on his skating, but he is still looking slow out there. I think Derek Ryan is the cut-off - he needs to be as mobile as Derek Ryan was - just 'average' to SLIGHTLY above average. Just needs to work on that first step more. I don't think he will stick in the NHL without it. If giants can't stick in the NHL because their first step is bad (or at least slower than average), then I think the same holds true for undersized players.


If you have the hands and IQ of a Tkachuk, you will make it no matter what size you are with bad skating.

Tkachuk makes up for lack of speed with anticipation. If Kerins anticipates the play a little better it will help a lot. It's not so much that he looked slow to me skating wise. He looked slow to react. If you can move quickly, you can make up for that. If not, you really have to be aware of where the p;lay is going.