[PGT] Harvey the Hound and Flames, 3-4 loss vs Jets.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Pretty much the same team as last year.

They are sitting last because their best players are old and now are one year older and they have a serious lack of elite talent.

It’s not like there was an intention of being this bad when the season started.

Or....

Perhaps management DID understand that last year they punched WAY above their weight class, and rolling out the same team again, with the vets all a year older, would result in exactly what they have been planning on, which is that the team sinks to the bottom of the standings, and the rebuild quietly continues.

But the "the Flames are idiots that are being saved by Lindholm!" argument is another way to go.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I do hope the Flames finally get the chance to draft a #1C. Looks the bottom will fall out in some weaker center drafts unfortunately

Next year is shaping up to have more centers at the top.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Or....

Perhaps management DID understand that last year they punched WAY above their weight class, and rolling out the same team again, with the vets all a year older, would result in exactly what they have been planning on, which is that the team sinks to the bottom of the standings, and the rebuild quietly continues.

But the "the Flames are idiots that are being saved by Lindholm!" argument is another way to go.

I love the Lindholm argument, fact free but it has all the feelings that curmudgeons want when talking about their team.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

The Flames didn't trade Andersson last year because they believed they were a playoff team. They didn't rebuild and now his value is lower. This hurts the Flames.

With every loss, the illusion that this team might make the playoffs is further squashed.

Apparently that's what is needed for this management group to rebuild.

Once they get a top line center, it will be the start of the 5 year rebuild.

Happy to cheer for losses in the meantime.

The bottom is not the start of a rebuild. The slide to the bottom is the start of the rebuild. It is ugly and it is painful. But it is part of the process.

And this is where you are confused and frustrated. And you will remain frustrated until the draft, even though management is doing exactly what you want.

If you could realize and acknowledge that this is in fact a rebuild, you could enjoy it a lot more.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Next year is shaping up to have more centers at the top.

I do wonder if the Flames get the opportunity whether they just draft Verhoeff. There are worse things than being stacked on the backend and a team that has few good defensive prospects but a glut of forward prospects (Sharks) might come to you with an offer that is hard to refuse.

Could also be one of those rare times that a top pick is moved at the draft. If I was the Flames and the draft order was the same as the current standings I would consider doing something like

Number one pick + Vegas pick (24th overall) for Misa and the #7 pick.

I think by the end of the year it will be a coin flip for who is the first overall prospect anyway. Pretty rare for a draft eligible dman to put up the numbers that Verhoeff is putting up.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

He's genuine surly, always has been. Hates the Flames, too. I like that about him. He's not fake and doesn't suffer fools. When he made fun of Abbot a couple of times, it was warranted.

'They call Dave Lowry, Pi because he loves math.'

'LOL, where did you hear that? I was his team mate. He's called Pie because of his big round pie-shaped face.'

I thought that was awesome.

How was that warranted? He was acting like a know-it-all prick who was wrong, and just showed he ever bothered to get to know one of his teammates:

https://calgarysun.com/sports/hockey...was-inevitable

“We were roommates and one day, he was like, ‘You can call me Pi,’” the Calgary Flames assistant general manager recalls, still somewhat mystified. “So, I was like, ‘OK, Pi.’”

Instead, the nickname dates back to Lowry’s days when he was a math genius a kid and, after all this time, the legend of Pi lives on.

[Inferno]

Another thing is I think some people think rebuilding is only trading away players.

There's multiple parts to rebuilding. One is choosing not to sign or re-sign players so you can leave spots open for younger players which they still did. Conroy could have let almost making the playoffs make him want to blow a bunch of the cap space he had but it didn't.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

How was that warranted? He was acting like a know-it-all prick who was wrong, and just showed he ever bothered to get to know one of his teammates:

https://calgarysun.com/sports/hockey...was-inevitable

Garrett and Lowry weren't teammates I think. But still he was being a dick. Maybe it was past grampy's bedtime.

Note: I never heard the Pi story and I would have thought it was short for "pieface" myself. and FWIW:

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...9&postcount=28

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Garrett and Lowry weren't teammates I think.

They were maybe in camp together before Lowry's rookie season, but either way, weird authoritative claim by him to say he knew this because "teammate".

I'll also go with the Craig Conroy version of facts over the internet message board version. Although I'm sure someone turned it into a pie face thing at some point, it doesn't sound like the correct origin story.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

They were maybe in camp together before Lowry's rookie season, but either way, weird authoritative claim by him to say he knew this because "teammate".

I'll also go with the Craig Conroy version of facts over the internet message board version. Although I'm sure someone turned it into a pie face thing at some point, it doesn't sound like the correct origin story.

Yeah camp (in a season before he made the team) would have been the only way they ever met. Garrett retired before Lowry's rookie season.

And Lowry didn't have a "pie face" back then anyway.

https://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/1983/83110.html

[Rhett44]

I think you can definitely make an argument the full rebuild hasn't started yet. Or that it started this year now that we are losing and being forced into it.

But I don't know how you can officially even call it a rebuild unless they proactively begin making moves like trading Kadri, Coleman etc before they are forced into it.

[Finger Cookin]

We apparently need at least 5 different advanced stats measuring different attributes that can be combined and boiled down into 1 number to determine if this rebuild is, in fact, a rebuild. Maybe we can coin this stat as the True Rebuild Quotient...? I'm open to suggestions on the stat name.

[curves2000]

Sometimes it comes down to different expectations from fan's about where the team is in terms of performance. Maybe this year is a rebuild or maybe next year or whatever. I can tell you with 100% confidence that this organization has been beyond pathetic in terms of overall performance.

Going back to fluky 04, they had a veteran team for a few years with a lack of young, elite talent in a cap world. Played well but it became clear the veteran strategy and trading away 1st and 2nd picks wasn't smart. They pivoted or started a mini rebuild in 2013 trading guys like Iggy, JBow and others.

They had some great players and had excitement for a few years but never really built the team/coaching properly for any level of success from 14 onward. In 22 is when things unraveled hard and again is was another mini pivot, try again strategy that is clearly showing it didn't work out yet again.

Ownership and management keeps telling us this franchise is designed, operated and funded to be very competitive, cap capable and compete for the playoffs and Cup almost every year. Ironically we will have made playoffs 9/22 seasons since cap (40%) and trending down.

So if this team doesn't really make playoffs a lot, doesn't really rebuild, really hasn't had ANY deep playoff runs in those years, then what what are we actually doing? This last place performance thus far was forced upon us by external factors, not really by our control.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Ownership and management keeps telling us this franchise is designed, operated and funded to be very competitive, cap capable and compete for the playoffs and Cup almost every year. Ironically we will have made playoffs 9/22 seasons since cap (40%) and trending down.

Not sure what cap capable is but I am assuming it is not leaving tens of millions of dollars of cap space unused, assuming you mean that they are a cap team. They have not been a cap team for two years now and probably won’t be any time soon. They currently are not funded to compete for a Cup and won’t be any time soon so you don’t have anything to worry about.

[flame4life]

I didn't get a chance to watch the game live, but based on the highlight package and the from what I could determine from box score and postings, seemed like it was an ok game. I never cheer for losses (sorry team tank), but I am totally ok with losses. I like it when the Flames play hard and try their best, and if they come up short - no problem. This is what it will be for most of the year from what I can see - the talent differential between the flames and the other top teams is noticeable. This cannot be bridged by systems or coaching, so it is inevitable that the Flames will lose way more than they will win this year.

I was impressed at least from the highlights perspective, that the Flames fought back 3 separate times to tie the game and if we have the talent and the finishers, likely would have won that game. I love their fight and their effort, but not sad about the result. It does give us the chance to improve our team through the draft, though not guaranteed to be a 1st pick no matter how bad or if we finish last.

Go Flames!

[Tsawwassen]

Post game links
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...e-a779346831cb
https://www.espn.com/nhl/game/_/game...45/jets-flames
https://www.espn.com/nhl/recap/_/gameId/401802645
https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/winnip...boxscore-43368
https://deadspin.com/flames-force-ot...-shootout-win/
https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/calgar...h-against-jets