[PGT] Wild defeat Flames 2-0, Nov. 9th

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Sharangovich, Frost, Farabee, Miromanov, all felt like moves that were retool oriented.

They traded UFAs but I truly don't think they were set on a true rebuild. I think they were walking the line and seeing how things played out. If they could avoid bottoming out I think they would have gladly tried to keep moving in that direction. If the team was repeating last year I think we would see them still on the fence and not commiting one way or the other.

Thankfully the team is making the choices for them right now though.

"Feelings" don't really matter.

When you trade away almost half an NHL roster you need to bring back some NHL players to play. The bottom line is they are net positive on 5 prospects and 9 draft picks, net negative 4 NHL players, and this doesn't take into account that the NHL players they got back were all younger than the players they traded.

It's a rebuild.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Sharangovich, Frost, Farabee, Miromanov, all felt like moves that were retool oriented.

They traded UFAs but I truly don't think they were set on a true rebuild. I think they were walking the line and seeing how things played out. If they could avoid bottoming out I think they would have gladly tried to keep moving in that direction. If the team was repeating last year I think we would see them still on the fence and not commiting one way or the other.

Thankfully the team is making the choices for them right now though.

The Flames do need some bodies and cap to ice a team. Frost and Farabee were a decent gamble on shuffling some bodies and hoping they bounced back and increased their value. Conroy would be a terrible GM if he was actually committed to re-tooling with this much cap space. Let’s see if he trades Kadri in the first season he actually can.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Incredibly Gridin, Brzustewicz, Reschny, Battaglia, Stockselius came from trades where the Flames gave up older veterans in those trades. Yet some seem to think they have not been rebuilding for the past two years.

After those players held guns to the teams head and wanted out, even after the org wanted to keep them and re-sign them. The idea that everything they've done recently was strategic is frustrating to me.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Imagine looking at the cap space the Flames have, the trades they've made since CC became GM and the UFA signings they haven't made and somehow coming to the conclusion that this team hasn't been rebuilding for two years now.

We're just following the Dallas model. A model that started with drafting Heiskanen 3rd overall. We're well on our way for a top 3 pick.

Hopefully we get lucky with the Vegas pick and our own 2nd so we could get an Oettinger and a Robertson level of players.

[nieuwy-89]

Thought the effort was good tonight. Didn’t see any passengers. Team just has no confidence right now which is deadly when combined with the lack of high-end skill.

Feel bad for the players as I’m sure it’s not very enjoyable right now.

But overall this is best for the franchise in the long run.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Flame On

After those players held guns to the teams head and wanted out, even after the org wanted to keep them and re-sign them. The idea that everything they've done recently was strategic is frustrating to me.

This is a great point that I've also been saying. This wasn't some strategic rebuild by our management.

We got extremely lucky that a bunch of vets said no to re signing with us, even when we tried to overpay. Yes, it doesn't matter now because we did not sign them, but this is genuinely very concerning that we don't seem to have a plan and seem to be making reactive moves rather than proactive.

I do think trading Markstrom was a step in the right direction. Hopefully the Murray Edwards statements are all a bunch of bs, because if not all you can do is laugh. Every one else in the world can see this team needs a complete rebuild. Half measures aren't going to do much.

[ComixZone]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1987530762694844742

I find this interesting.

[Goriders]

35 shots. Zero goals.

Yikes

[InternationalVillager]

Why are we acting like we care about lack of success? Aren’t we all on board to applaud?

[Goriders]

Add in for 2 games.

69 shots. Zero goals.

Yikes

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

We're just following the Dallas model. A model that started with drafting Heiskanen 3rd overall. We're well on our way for a top 3 pick.

Hopefully we get lucky with the Vegas pick and our own 2nd so we could get an Oettinger and a Robertson level of players.

Unless the team gets moved to another tax sheltered, warm climate, big city, transport hub we aren't following the Dallas model.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Murray Edwards has been a negotiator and deal maker his entire life. He will never say what he really thinks in public - everything he says is positioning.

Privately, he has said very different things. The opposite.

Do you honestly believe anyone in the organization loves the core? Does that seem plausible to you? Or is it perhaps more plausible that this is just media manipulation, and that their actions are more reflective of their actual motives?

The denial from a good portion of this board is flabbergasting. How much more evidence do you need? Murray Edwards wants a team of recognizable names that are at least giving the perception of competing for a playoff spot. He wants that to sell tickets. Which is why this team has been the most consistently mediocre team in the NHL.

Fortunately, the Flames are bad enough this year they may not have a choice. But my goodnrss have they ever tried to keel themselves near mediocre.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

"Feelings" don't really matter.

When you trade away almost half an NHL roster you need to bring back some NHL players to play. The bottom line is they are net positive on 5 prospects and 9 draft picks, net negative 4 NHL players, and this doesn't take into account that the NHL players they got back were all younger than the players they traded.

It's a rebuild.

Says a select group on the CP message board. The hockey world, including the Flames management and ownership, say otherwise. One season of trading players on expiring contracts that they were trying to extend is not a commitment to a rebuild. They have done almost nothing in 16 months, and what they tried to do was connect on a "big swing" to bring on help.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Says a select group on the CP message board. The hockey world, including the Flames management and ownership, say otherwise. One season of trading players on expiring contracts that they were trying to extend is not a commitment to a rebuild. They have done almost nothing in 16 months, and what they tried to do was connect on a "big swing" to bring on help.

It doesn't matter what they say, the evidence is in what they've done.

They didn't sell anything last year because the team surprised and was in the playoff hunt and to top it off they didn't have any valuable UFA's to trade away, so they were able to stand pat and give the surprise team a chance to make it in.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

It doesn't matter what they say, the evidence is in what they've done.

They didn't sell anything last year because the team surprised and was in the playoff hunt and to top it off they didn't have any valuable UFA's to trade away, so they were able to stand pat and give the surprise team a chance to make it in.

They had an opportunity to sell assets in what was a sellers market last trade deadline. Carlo went for a freaking 1st and 4th and more but we kept Anderrson. Brock Nelson went for a 1st, 3rd, and Caleb Ritchie. But we did not even ask Kadri if he would waive his NTC.

The reason we kept both players was to try to get into the playoffs. That is not what a rebuilding club does. You're not trying to be competitive and sneak into a playoff spot during a rebuild with your vets. You are thinking longer term and trying to acquire as many picks as possible, while also trying to draft as high as possible and unloading the vets.

You can argue whether we should or shouldn't off load vets when we are that close to a playoff spot. But choosing to stand pat pretty much goes against the rebuilding philosophy when you have a sellers market. We definitely did not choose a rebuild last year, but we certainly are being forced into it now if we keep losing.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

They had an opportunity to sell assets in what was a sellers market last trade deadline. Carlo went for a freaking 1st and 4th and more but we kept Anderrson. Brock Nelson went for a 1st, 3rd, and Caleb Ritchie. But we did not even ask Kadri if he would waive his NTC.

The reason we kept both players was to try to get into the playoffs. That is not what a rebuilding club does. You're not trying to be competitive and sneak into a playoff spot during a rebuild with your vets. You are thinking longer term and trying to acquire as many picks as possible, while also trying to draft as high as possible and unloading the vets.

You can argue whether we should or shouldn't off load vets when we are that close to a playoff spot. But choosing to stand pat pretty much goes against the rebuilding philosophy when you have a sellers market. We definitely did not choose a rebuild last year, but we certainly are being forced into it now if we keep losing.

They kept the players because they were in a playoff race (not expected, but it happened) and neither player was on an expiring deal. They will now be able to continue the rebuild they already started and sell.

Andersson will be gone for sure.

Hopefully CC gets solid offers for both Kadri and Coleman and they are traded as well. If he doesn't get an offer he deems acceptable, they may not get traded because they aren't on expiring deals.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

It doesn't matter what they say, the evidence is in what they've done.

They didn't sell anything last year because the team surprised and was in the playoff hunt and to top it off they didn't have any valuable UFA's to trade away, so they were able to stand pat and give the surprise team a chance to make it in.

It doesn’t matter what happens from here on in, there will be a select group who’ll whine “not like that!!!!”
So
Buckle in, we have at least 5 more years of this
IF
This rebuild is successful

[Itse]

On pace for 48 points, 173 GF and a goal differential of -92

Previous full season record lows are 67 points (97-98), 186 GF (02-03) and -45 goals (99-00).

In fact we're en route to go below two shortened seasons: we got 55 points in 56 games in 20-21, and the same 55 points in 48 games in 94-95.

The worst Atlanta Flames season 72-73 was 65 points in 78 games with a goal differential of -48. (That was their first season.)

The current 2nd to last place team St. Louis is on pace to 66-67 points.

There's nothing to salvage here. If someone wants to give us draft picks for our vets, you say thank you. This team is heading for the bottom regardless.

(Keep Backlund though.)

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

He looks like he's playing to avoid contact....that's just not gonna work in this league.

Fear of injury is not surprising in Zary’s case.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/article/early...s-trade-kadri/

“ But I also know that Murray Edwards, the owner of the Calgary Flames, is telling people that he has no interest in trading Nazem Kadri. In fact, he doesn’t want to trade Nazem Kadri. He loves the core of this team.”

So the answer is no, Dreger has never got anything right about the Flames?