[PGT] Wild defeat Flames 2-0, Nov. 9th

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Has anyone who is part of the Flames ever said they love the core?

In an unrelated note, has Dreger ever got anything right about the Flames since Nonis became an employee? I can’t remember anything but I could be forgetting something he actually got correct.

Dreger, Pike and Steinberg have all reported similarly without the quotes.
Now don't get me wrong, some are overreacting. But all three have been consistent in saying there is some reluctance to dismantle the core of the team.

Honestly I think it all becomes moot if the team stays at the very bottom of the standings and there's just no debate at that point.

[Dion]

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[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Why does it matter? I don’t really care what they say. The vast majority of Conroy’s moves are rebuilding ones. Judge them on what he does

Why does honesty matter? That’s sort of up to you to answer for yourself, but honesty is important to me. I believe that organizations (especially ones that rely on emotional investment like sport) are generally better off in being honest towards their consumers.

You’re right though, results are the only thing that matters. This team has had poor results for the last 2 decades. Maybe a smidge of honesty wouldn’t hurt.

[Mathgod]

This team has an awesome amazing winning (the draft lotto) culture.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Hey ChatGPT, what is it you would say 3/4 of this team does for us this year?

More Honzek
More youth
More purging of the toxicity
More guys who give a #### in the lineup

** on 2nd though, Id rather see the success and learning in the AHL this year than put any of these kids in this toxic environment **
Keep on tanking
Sell the assets teams want
Draft more

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/article/early...s-trade-kadri/

“ But I also know that Murray Edwards, the owner of the Calgary Flames, is telling people that he has no interest in trading Nazem Kadri. In fact, he doesn’t want to trade Nazem Kadri. He loves the core of this team.”

Murray Edwards has been a negotiator and deal maker his entire life. He will never say what he really thinks in public - everything he says is positioning.

Privately, he has said very different things. The opposite.

Do you honestly believe anyone in the organization loves the core? Does that seem plausible to you? Or is it perhaps more plausible that this is just media manipulation, and that their actions are more reflective of their actual motives?

[Roof-Daddy]

Imagine looking at the cap space the Flames have, the trades they've made since CC became GM and the UFA signings they haven't made and somehow coming to the conclusion that this team hasn't been rebuilding for two years now.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Imagine looking at the cap space the Flames have, the trades they've made since CC became GM and the UFA signings they haven't made and somehow coming to the conclusion that this team hasn't been rebuilding for two years now.

The Flames have been "re-tooling on the fly" and not doing a burn it down "rebuild" that includes a tank.

I like what someone else coined it, an "ethical tank".

What we're excited for now is to see Connie embrace this year's most logical path forward - this "ethical tank". Time to make the cuts a bit deeper, and deal some veterans who have term so we can extract additional value and possibly speed up the process.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The Flames have been "re-tooling on the fly" and not doing a burn it down "rebuild" that includes a tank.

I like what someone else coined it, an "ethical tank".

What we're excited for now is to see Connie embrace this year's most logical path forward - this "ethical tank". Time to make the cuts a bit deeper, and deal some veterans who have term so we can extract additional value and possibly speed up the process.

I would call what we have been doing a half measured tank. A proper full tank will begin if we trade Kadri or some players who aren't on expiring contracts. We are kind of playing it safe by not having traded Kadri or Coleman, and re signing Backlund, and I would like them to fully embrace a tank to speed this up and stop this debate between fans.

[BlueCharlton]

Anything Conroy or Edwards and to a lesser extent Huska at this point I believe is to maintain the illusion of leverage, especially for trade situations.

Can't maximize your trade chips if you are telling everyone you don't want them.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Why does honesty matter? That’s sort of up to you to answer for yourself, but honesty is important to me. I believe that organizations (especially ones that rely on emotional investment like sport) are generally better off in being honest towards their consumers.

You’re right though, results are the only thing that matters. This team has had poor results for the last 2 decades. Maybe a smidge of honesty wouldn’t hurt.

I don’t really see the upside and coming out and saying the team is garbage and the vets need to go. Seems like you really just want the pat on the back confirming the team sucks.

[Strange Brew]

The Flames are obviously rebuilding and trading guys as they near the end of their contract if they won’t re-sign for what the Flames are offering.

Really the interesting question is what they are going to do with Kadri this season.

[Locke]

It is what it is...and it is not great.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The Flames have been "re-tooling on the fly" and not doing a burn it down "rebuild" that includes a tank.

I like what someone else coined it, an "ethical tank".

What we're excited for now is to see Connie embrace this year's most logical path forward - this "ethical tank". Time to make the cuts a bit deeper, and deal some veterans who have term so we can extract additional value and possibly speed up the process.

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I would call what we have been doing a half measured tank. A proper full tank will begin if we trade Kadri or some players who aren't on expiring contracts. We are kind of playing it safe by not having traded Kadri or Coleman, and re signing Backlund, and I would like them to fully embrace a tank to speed this up and stop this debate between fans.

Since CC took over the Flames have:

Traded away 9 players, 1 prospect and 4 picks
Received in return 5 players, 6 prospects and 13 picks

They've also been hovering around the salary floor for two seasons now.

This is not a retool lol

I agree though, this terrible start will hopefully push them to deal Kadri and Coleman along with Ras this season at some point.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Murray Edwards has been a negotiator and deal maker his entire life. He will never say what he really thinks in public - everything he says is positioning.

Privately, he has said very different things. The opposite.

Do you honestly believe anyone in the organization loves the core? Does that seem plausible to you? Or is it perhaps more plausible that this is just media manipulation, and that their actions are more reflective of their actual motives?

Yes I certainly think it’s possible some in the front office love the core but not the results. “Don’t touch my garbage” type of mindset.

If this is “media manipulation” who are they manipulating? What position are they posturing for? They’re 20% through the season and fairly solidly in last place. Are they pretending they’re actually a bottom 10 team instead of dead last? The players all suck this year, thats not something you can bluff your way out of.

Furthermore, who is the core? Wolf? The bloated contract of Huberdeau? Coronato? Weegar? Wolf is the only guy I’d hang my hat on, everyone else is dispensable (hypothetically speaking).

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

That's a BIG assumption that we will land one of them...and one decent player does not a Stanley Cup Champion (or even a contender) make.


Edit: Enjoy the tank...hope you're not a STH.

So what do you think they should do?

They need to try to build a winner, And really they don't have any other options at this point.

There is nobody they can sign or trade for that's going to make this team a contender - they have to maximize assets and draft a new core.

You're not trading Kadri, Andersson, and Coleman to try to tank, you're trading them because you are already in last place and nothing is going to magically make this team a contender.

You trade them now because at their age they aren't going to help you long term and you need to accumulate assets to help you build a core that's all around the same age that hopefully can grow together. Because like you said one player does not make a Stanley cup champion.

If you have a better idea to build a cup contender then let's hear it, but the reality is at this point they don't really have much choice.

[TheScorpion]

The Flames haven't sold anybody this year and they're already last in the league, so unless you want them to be trading futures for win-now pieces — something I think even the most die-hard STHs would agree to be a terrible idea — then there shouldn't be any debate over whether it's worthwhile to make a high draft pick this year. One way or another, they're doing it. Trading more pieces just means they'll put up less of a fight against the inevitable.

Frankly if I were a STH I would rather they trade some of these guys, they're awful to watch as it is.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The Flames have been "re-tooling on the fly" and not doing a burn it down "rebuild" that includes a tank.

I like what someone else coined it, an "ethical tank".

What we're excited for now is to see Connie embrace this year's most logical path forward - this "ethical tank". Time to make the cuts a bit deeper, and deal some veterans who have term so we can extract additional value and possibly speed up the process.

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I would call what we have been doing a half measured tank. A proper full tank will begin if we trade Kadri or some players who aren't on expiring contracts. We are kind of playing it safe by not having traded Kadri or Coleman, and re signing Backlund, and I would like them to fully embrace a tank to speed this up and stop this debate between fans.

I actually think they were full on rebuilding - the moves they made prior to the 24-25 season were full on rebuilding moves. Especially the Markstrom trade that summer.

Then I think the 24-25 season happened and they kind of hit pause and for the last 18 months haven't really made any moves of significance to signify themselves as rebuilding or feeling like they could start building.

Now I'm hoping that these first 17 game stretch is enough for them to accelerate the rebuild again.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Since CC took over the Flames have:

Traded away 9 players, 1 prospect and 4 picks
Received in return 5 players, 6 prospects and 13 picks

They've also been hovering around the salary floor for two seasons now.

This is not a retool lol

I agree though, this terrible start will hopefully push them to deal Kadri and Coleman along with Ras this season at some point.

Sharangovich, Frost, Farabee, Miromanov, all felt like moves that were retool oriented.

They traded UFAs but I truly don't think they were set on a true rebuild. I think they were walking the line and seeing how things played out. If they could avoid bottoming out I think they would have gladly tried to keep moving in that direction. If the team was repeating last year I think we would see them still on the fence and not commiting one way or the other.

Thankfully the team is making the choices for them right now though.

[GranteedEV]

Lowkey the most exciting season since 2019 since there's actual hope at the end of the tunnel