[PGT] Blackhawks defeat Flames 4-0

[Calgary4LIfe]

Why in the world are people outraged?


By so many comments, you would have figured that this team was supposed to win the cup this season! Holy smokes!


The Vets have been pushing this team, sorry to say. But sure, let's point the fingers at them:


Kadri
Huberdeau
Frost
Coleman
Backlund
Farabee
Coronato
Andersson
Sharangovich
Klapka
Weegar
...


This is your scoring leaders in order. Sure, but it must be their fault, right?


This is what happens to a team that loses! Guess what? It is going to be getting WORSE than better, so prepare yourselves. I can't believe that people still don't realize that this is a full-blown tear-down!


No, Sharangovich shouldn't be sitting. He is on year 1 of a 5 year deal. Flames have to figure out a way to make him a good player somehow. Yes, he should be playing higher up in the lineup as he is not suited for a 4th line center role, but he has been outed already for his passive play. Maybe that's why he is playing between Lomberg and Klapka? Trying to help build that confidence physically, so he won't be so shy to make contact - or gasp! - go into the dirty areas? And/or it is simply Huska's way to say: "You are on the 4th line - if you don't start showing a bit more determination, you will be scratched again." I don't think the objective is to turn Sharangovich into a 30 goal scorer as a 4th line center. He is obviously miscast there - but WHY? Maybe it is a combination of "this is what he deserves" plus a little "this may be good for him" too. But sure, freak out.


This team has too many wingers. Full-stop. No, you don't bench guys, or make bad trades, just so you can see your favourite borderline prospect up in the NHL skating around and maybe getting overwhelmed. Leave the prospects ripening on the farm for now. Show a shred of patience and foresight at the moment, and realize that the AHL is probably the better environment for kids to develop in at the moment. This team is about to get a lot more grumpy and upset as the weeks pass, and they are still stuck in the bottom of the standings.


The market hasn't opened up yet. Wait until at least American Thanksgiving to see trades happen. Why make a bad trade now when you can make a better trade later this season. What are you trying to salvage right now?


As for the Vets with trade clauses - if they haven't already, I am sure more of them will request trades-out, or at least be much more willing to move, and work with the Flames on it. Don't want to work with the Flames and open up your options? Then you can stay on a team that is at the bottom of the standings. Conroy doesn't have to make a bad move. The market will open up, and teams losing players to injury, or teams trying to stay in the playoffs that may be falling out, or simply teams trying to put themselves over-the-top will start to buy. It isn't now, so just relax.


It will get worse before it gets better, this I am sure. So stop watching expecting wins, or expecting brilliance, or expecting what you assume a good team plays like. This is not a good team. Just enjoy whatever there is to enjoy. Maybe a big hit, or a nice play.. or the fact that a journeyman like Hanley cares enough about this team to willingly challenge a much larger and tougher opponent to a fight. Hats off to him! My appreciation of him grew by a lot.

This will probably be the worst comment I will make here - but Weegar really pisses me off sometimes with the crap he says. I am ok with trading him out, even though the defence would be completely decimated. Sure, call out the team when perhaps you were 'invested' in effort, but not in execution.


Hey, at least it was better than his ridiculous comment about when they lost to the Blues last season (or was it 2 seasons ago??) in terrible fashion, and then went and said the stupidest thing I could ever imagine a player saying: "They beat us - they took our will away. blah blah blah." Then you hear Coleman in another clip saying: "There is no excuse for our performance. Guys in here have to learn to dig in" or something like that. Neither was verbatim. I can appreciate Weegar's openness at times, but boy does he say the wrong things, and thinks the wrong things sometimes. I am too lazy and uninterested to look up the exact quotes after the game, but I found it so strange that Weegar would go and say that 'team x took away our will to compete'. Ever since then, I never saw him as a 'leader'. Yeah, I am sure people will be upset with my thoughts on his leadership, but I just don't see him as that right now.


At any rate, if you are a fan of this team, then you better start finding a way to enjoy these games. I enjoyed a lot of the game last night. I can't say I enjoyed the loss, nor could I enjoy any of the goals scored against the Flames, but I certain enjoyed some of the game. As a hockey fan, I could enjoy Bedard's skill too, and I can't but help think: "see, we need one of those, right?"


I just don't understand the outrage and frustration - ESPECIALLY by the guys demanding a 'rebuild'. I am one of those guys, and the only outrage I have is with the overall outrage after this loss. This is what a rebuild looks like. Giddy-up and find a way to get through this, as it will likely get worse.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Locke

He pioneered the 5-Dman powerplay!! What more do you want from the man?!?! Blood??

Even that, he copied from Dave King.

I remember one game where King was so mad at his skilled players for not showing up, he put five defencemen on the power play – and both MacInnis and Suter were on the bench. Presumably that was why he dressed 11/7 so often.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Why in the world are people outraged?


By so many comments, you would have figured that this team was supposed to win the cup this season! Holy smokes!


The Vets have been pushing this team, sorry to say. But sure, let's point the fingers at them:


Kadri
Huberdeau
Frost
Coleman
Backlund
Farabee
Coronato
Andersson
Sharangovich
Klapka
Weegar
...


This is your scoring leaders in order. Sure, but it must be their fault, right?


This is what happens to a team that loses! Guess what? It is going to be getting WORSE than better, so prepare yourselves. I can't believe that people still don't realize that this is a full-blown tear-down!


No, Sharangovich shouldn't be sitting. He is on year 1 of a 5 year deal. Flames have to figure out a way to make him a good player somehow. Yes, he should be playing higher up in the lineup as he is not suited for a 4th line center role, but he has been outed already for his passive play. Maybe that's why he is playing between Lomberg and Klapka? Trying to help build that confidence physically, so he won't be so shy to make contact - or gasp! - go into the dirty areas? And/or it is simply Huska's way to say: "You are on the 4th line - if you don't start showing a bit more determination, you will be scratched again." I don't think the objective is to turn Sharangovich into a 30 goal scorer as a 4th line center. He is obviously miscast there - but WHY? Maybe it is a combination of "this is what he deserves" plus a little "this may be good for him" too. But sure, freak out.


This team has too many wingers. Full-stop. No, you don't bench guys, or make bad trades, just so you can see your favourite borderline prospect up in the NHL skating around and maybe getting overwhelmed. Leave the prospects ripening on the farm for now. Show a shred of patience and foresight at the moment, and realize that the AHL is probably the better environment for kids to develop in at the moment. This team is about to get a lot more grumpy and upset as the weeks pass, and they are still stuck in the bottom of the standings.


The market hasn't opened up yet. Wait until at least American Thanksgiving to see trades happen. Why make a bad trade now when you can make a better trade later this season. What are you trying to salvage right now?


As for the Vets with trade clauses - if they haven't already, I am sure more of them will request trades-out, or at least be much more willing to move, and work with the Flames on it. Don't want to work with the Flames and open up your options? Then you can stay on a team that is at the bottom of the standings. Conroy doesn't have to make a bad move. The market will open up, and teams losing players to injury, or teams trying to stay in the playoffs that may be falling out, or simply teams trying to put themselves over-the-top will start to buy. It isn't now, so just relax.


It will get worse before it gets better, this I am sure. So stop watching expecting wins, or expecting brilliance, or expecting what you assume a good team plays like. This is not a good team. Just enjoy whatever there is to enjoy. Maybe a big hit, or a nice play.. or the fact that a journeyman like Hanley cares enough about this team to willingly challenge a much larger and tougher opponent to a fight. Hats off to him! My appreciation of him grew by a lot.

This will probably be the worst comment I will make here - but Weegar really pisses me off sometimes with the crap he says. I am ok with trading him out, even though the defence would be completely decimated. Sure, call out the team when perhaps you were 'invested' in effort, but not in execution.


Hey, at least it was better than his ridiculous comment about when they lost to the Blues last season (or was it 2 seasons ago??) in terrible fashion, and then went and said the stupidest thing I could ever imagine a player saying: "They beat us - they took our will away. blah blah blah." Then you hear Coleman in another clip saying: "There is no excuse for our performance. Guys in here have to learn to dig in" or something like that. Neither was verbatim. I can appreciate Weegar's openness at times, but boy does he say the wrong things, and thinks the wrong things sometimes. I am too lazy and uninterested to look up the exact quotes after the game, but I found it so strange that Weegar would go and say that 'team x took away our will to compete'. Ever since then, I never saw him as a 'leader'. Yeah, I am sure people will be upset with my thoughts on his leadership, but I just don't see him as that right now.


At any rate, if you are a fan of this team, then you better start finding a way to enjoy these games. I enjoyed a lot of the game last night. I can't say I enjoyed the loss, nor could I enjoy any of the goals scored against the Flames, but I certain enjoyed some of the game. As a hockey fan, I could enjoy Bedard's skill too, and I can't but help think: "see, we need one of those, right?"


I just don't understand the outrage and frustration - ESPECIALLY by the guys demanding a 'rebuild'. I am one of those guys, and the only outrage I have is with the overall outrage after this loss. This is what a rebuild looks like. Giddy-up and find a way to get through this, as it will likely get worse.

LOL you need to spend at least as much time reading other people's posts as you do typing yours. Maybe you read everything in all caps, but I am not seeing much outrage. Just people with a different opinion than you (and we are talking nuance here as we are almost 100% rebuild).

[OminousFlames]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

and Weegar called out half the team when 5 of the worst 7 skaters were:

Weegar, Andersson, Coleman, Kadri and Backlund.

"Leadership"

I mean one of the goals against was a 3 on 1.. What did you expect him to do? I could see why he was frustrated.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

LOL, all the pro tank people are unhappy they lost.

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Why in the world are people outraged?

Which comments are you guys complaining about? Could you maybe quote them as I didn't see anyone outraged about this loss but I didn't read everything.

[SutterBrother]

Sharangovich is the Flames version of the Huberdeau deal.

Untradable, underperforming, and here till the 2030's.

The only thing to do is to play him until he becomes serviceable, and just ignore the salary. We're stuck with him.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

Sharangovich is the Flames version of the Huberdeau deal.

Untradable, underperforming, and here till the 2030's.

The only thing to do is to play him until he becomes serviceable, and just ignore the salary. We're stuck with him.

Sadly, Huby is also the Flames version of the Huby deal.

Whats that? $15-16M in untradeable contracts for five more years?

We are at least five years from this rebuild completion, so that’s probably not too bad.

[GioforPM]

What do these comments have to do with the game?

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Sadly, Huby is also the Flames version of the Huby deal.

Whats that? $15-16M in untradeable contracts for five more years?

We are at least five years from this rebuild completion, so that’s probably not too bad.

And you have to assume to floor is going to rise and we'll need to rise with it. With Conroy seemingly unable or unwilling to take on dead cap from other teams (when it would have been an amazing gain to add assets), I suppose the alternative is to just retain your own overpaid players.

Ah well. The rebuild clock starts once you draft the first line center. It might be accelerated by our crop of second tier prospects, but it's most likely the soonest in 5 years (assuming that #1 C is currently 17 and will develop until 22).

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

And you have to assume to floor is going to rise and we'll need to rise with it. With Conroy seemingly unable or unwilling to take on dead cap from other teams (when it would have been an amazing gain to add assets), I suppose the alternative is to just retain your own overpaid players.

Ah well. The rebuild clock starts once you draft the first line center. It might be accelerated by our crop of second tier prospects, but it's most likely the soonest in 5 years (assuming that #1 C is currently 17 and will develop until 22).

Yup! Many more 0-4 losses between now and then.

Happy GioforPM?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Yup! Many more 0-4 losses between now and then.

Happy GioforPM?

Why would your weirdly hypocritical sarcasm make me happy?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What do these comments have to do with the game?

I am completely not worried myself about any contracts on the Flames. The Flames will be nowhere near spending to the cap until 2028/2029 at the earliest. By that season the only contracts left for vets (guys over 27 right now) will be

Kadri - one year left (he is probably traded long before then)
Sharangovich - 2 years left
Huberdeau - 3 years left
Weegar - 3 years left

Guys under 27 with term left will be
Coronato - 4 years left
Bahl - 3 years left
Wolf - 5 years left

The likelihood that any of those contracts will prevent them from signing any good young players is almost zero.

The Flames (assuming Gridin does not play 10 NHL games this year) will have to sign the following players in the following offseasons

Parekh - 2028
Gridin - 2029 (when Yegor has one season left)
2026 1sts - either 2029 or 2030 depending on whether the player plays 10 games next year
2027 1sts - 2030 or 2031

There is not a single contract on the Flames that will prevent them from signing any of their young players longterm.

[GioforPM]

Contracts aren't a concern for me either. But the rising cap has limited the ability for teams to "weaponize" cap space. Most teams don't need to shed the bad contacts (just like Calgary).

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Contracts aren't a concern for me either. But the rising cap has limited the ability for teams to "weaponize" cap space. Most teams don't need to shed the bad contacts (just like Calgary).

I think the weaponizing space comes more with the playoff salary cap now. For instance, if the Flames made the following hypothetical trade with the Habs

Kadri for

2026 1st
Zharovsky
Josh Anderson

(Value of the Kadri trade is irrelevant for this example)

You could then hypothetically trade a 50% Josh Anderson to a playoff team looking for size and grit for probably a pretty good return. A 2.75 million dollar Josh Anderson would be appealing for a contender looking for size and grit on the 3rd/4th lines.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I think the weaponizing space comes more with the playoff salary cap now.

That's a very good point. And since playoff cap room is not accumulated or prorated through the regular season, unlike regular cap, there's no particular incentive to make those deals early or late. Since the system is new this year, I imagine teams will take their own sweet time figuring out how to take advantage of it, and make trades close to the deadline for that purpose.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I think the weaponizing space comes more with the playoff salary cap now. For instance, if the Flames made the following hypothetical trade with the Habs

Kadri for

2026 1st
Zharovsky
Josh Anderson

(Value of the Kadri trade is irrelevant for this example)

You could then hypothetically trade a 50% Josh Anderson to a playoff team looking for size and grit for probably a pretty good return. A 2.75 million dollar Josh Anderson would be appealing for a contender looking for size and grit on the 3rd/4th lines.

But only if the cap is an issue for the buyer in the first place.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

But only if the cap is an issue for the buyer in the first place.

True, but there are a number of teams that still have that issue, and most of them see themselves as contenders. There are likely to be opportunities.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

But only if the cap is an issue for the buyer in the first place.

Well there are 12 teams right now that have less than 2 million in cap space for this year. Suspect there will always be a market for that type of trade.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think that there will be a market for cap space, but the cap space will be cheap.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I think that there will be a market for cap space, but the cap space will be cheap.

That's the way to bet it. There may be higher-value deals to be made involving retention on particular players, as (if I understand the rules) the part of the salary retained by the seller does not count against the playoff cap of the buyer.