Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Drak]

I was just reiterating to my family a few days ago how much I despise November. My absolute least favorite month of the year. The time change kicks off making it darker. The weather gets colder. Rain on the coast pummels. Doug fir needles constantly all over the driveway. I find it pretty depressing.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by peter12

Actually, as some would have it here, his job should be to support the government.

It's more like people don't want to hear it. which is understandable. but it's his job to say it, its not our job to listen to it all day. I tune in for the big stuff, budgets, omnibus bills, but otherwise its easier just to follow along as little as manageable.

I have friends all they can do is #### talk Carny, Trudeau, whatever the ####. Ez to say I never spend time with any of them. Not because I disagree, but obsessing over politics is a mental illness.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by peter12

Yes, I'm in therapy now, but also don't be such a follower, my guy. You're smart. You could really be someone who contributes here, and not someone who polices and dismisses those with valid concerns.

I'm always here for you with a little kiss if you decide to change your ways.

Advice on how to contribute from someone whose formerly well-thought-out and sometimes controversial opinions have been entirely replaced by milquetoast twitter egghead trolling attempts.

I’m touched. So many kisses for you, babe.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Advice on how to contribute from someone whose formerly well-thought-out and sometimes controversial opinions have been entirely replaced by milquetoast twitter egghead trolling attempts.

I’m touched. So many kisses for you, babe.

Did you know I bought a beret?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by peter12

Did you know I bought a beret?

lol of course you did. For some reason I think you could pull it off but I’m not happy about the idea.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Poliver's job is to criticize the governing party. I understand wanting him to shut the #### up and disappear, but the truth is someone has to do that job. It's a crucial democratic institution.

Is it? Is the job of the opposition leader to criticize the governing party?

I get that PP has been an attack dog for decades and does not have another setting, but criticizing the government is not actually the job of the opposition leader.

The job of the opposition leader is to work within the government to provide the best possible outcomes for the people. Sometimes that means being critical of the governing party when they make the wrong decision but sometimes the opposition should support and work with the governing party if they are doing something that is good for the people.

PP can never actually do that job because his only setting is "attack" and his only interest is to score political points, harvest sound bites, and undermine the government. The government could be doing something wildly popular and beneficial to the people and PP would still attack them and try to stop that thing from happening because it doesn't help him gain power.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Is it? Is the job of the opposition leader to criticize the governing party?

I get that PP has been an attack dog for decades and does not have another setting, but criticizing the government is not actually the job of the opposition leader.

The job of the opposition leader is to work within the government to provide the best possible outcomes for the people. Sometimes that means being critical of the governing party when they make the wrong decision but sometimes the opposition should support and work with the governing party if they are doing something that is good for the people.

PP can never actually do that job because his only setting is "attack" and his only interest is to score political points, harvest sound bites, and undermine the government. The government could be doing something wildly popular and beneficial to the people and PP would still attack them and try to stop that thing from happening because it doesn't help him gain power.

No! There is no room for nuance here.

The role of the Opposition is to criticize and oppose everything the government does, and only that. Never anything more!

They should never work with the government to accomplish a best possible outcome. Because of this, we can conclude that PP is doing a fantastic job as Leader of the Opposition.

Or so I've been told.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by peter12

I am the flame, friend.

Baby, this is a song instead of a kiss.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Poliver's job is to criticize the governing party. I understand wanting him to shut the #### up and disappear, but the truth is someone has to do that job. It's a crucial democratic institution.

Mr Career politician/paper boy is terrible at it.

Are your friends and family being slaughtered in the street? The deplorable moron knows that we are at war with the US right?

But if he was in charge.... Trump would go to town on him.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by peter12

I am the flame, friend.

You are pretty insignificant no matter how much you paid Slava to write you that hallmark card! hhahahaha

You have 1 signature worthy material. lol

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

No! There is no room for nuance here.

The role of the Opposition is to criticize and oppose everything the government does, and only that. Never anything more!

They should never work with the government to accomplish a best possible outcome. Because of this, we can conclude that PP is doing a fantastic job as Leader of the Opposition.

Or so I've been told.

speaking of no nuance, way to give my statement no benefit of the doubt. Yes I should have said, it is a part of their job. its obviously not their entire job.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

lol of course you did. For some reason I think you could pull it off but I’m not happy about the idea.

he can't.....

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Is it? Is the job of the opposition leader to criticize the governing party?

I get that PP has been an attack dog for decades and does not have another setting, but criticizing the government is not actually the job of the opposition leader.

The job of the opposition leader is to work within the government to provide the best possible outcomes for the people. Sometimes that means being critical of the governing party when they make the wrong decision but sometimes the opposition should support and work with the governing party if they are doing something that is good for the people.

https://www.ourcommons.ca/procedure/...work-e.html#6a

The Role of Opposition Parties in Canada
Public debate on proposed legislation, on public policy and on the conduct of the executive is essential to the work of Parliament. Opposition parties lead and focus on the representative and watchdog functions performed by members of Parliament. They work to ensure that legislation is carefully considered, and that differing views on important initiatives are publicly expressed and defended.

By convention, the party with the second-largest number of seats in the House is designated as the official opposition. The leader of that party, if he or she is an elected member of the House, becomes the Leader of the Opposition, and enjoys special procedural considerations, such as unlimited time to participate in certain debates, the right to ask the first question during the daily question period, and being recognized in debate immediately after the minister who speaks first on behalf of the government when government bills or motions are introduced. By law, the Leader of the Opposition must be consulted before certain important decisions and appointments are made by the government.

The leaders of recognized opposition parties usually sit in the front row of the chamber. They are the first members of their parties to be given the floor should they rise to ask a question during question period.

The Standing Orders of the House of Commons provide opportunities for recognized opposition parties to respond to ministers’ statements, to propose motions on allotted or opposition days, and to chair certain standing committees. Opportunities to participate in debate of bills and motions, to make statements and to ask questions during question period are distributed in proportion to the number of members each party has in the House.

Yes, it quite literally is the job of the opposition leader to criticize any and all decisions done by the governing party. This exists even if the majority party has 342 seats and the opposition has 1. It's the framework of our parliamentary system.

If you see the Poilievre interview he did after the meeting he had with Carney, it's obvious that he likes many things in the budget and had a great rapport with Carney (it should be obvious when you see both together they are quite friendly to each other), but as opposition, they must criticize it by their role. It's quite literally their duty. I would fully expect any opposition to the government to voice issues with a budget or major bill and not just side with them.

That's something some of the more partisan folks on this board consistently fail to understand when the opposition is a party they don't like. Even on unanimous votes and decisions where the opposition agrees with a motion / proposed bill, they must still oppose and voice opposing views in the process. A lot of it is theatre as a result, but that's politics.

Whether people believe he is over the top in how he opposes is another matter entirely.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

speaking of no nuance, way to give my statement no benefit of the doubt. Yes I should have said, it is a part of their job. its obviously not their entire job.

It wasn't you I was referring to.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Yes, it quite literally is the job of the opposition leader to criticize any and all decisions done by the governing party. This exists even if the majority party has 342 seats and the opposition has 1. It's the framework of our parliamentary system.

If you see the Poilievre interview he did after the meeting he had with Carney, it's obvious that he likes many things in the budget and had a great rapport with Carney (it should be obvious when you see both together they are quite friendly to each other), but as opposition, they must criticize it by their role. It's quite literally their duty.

To some degree this is accurate but in reality they should only be criticizing the decisions they actually disagree with. If they can’t make that distinction then why should the public believe a word they say?

That's something some of the more partisan folks on this board consistently fail to understand when the opposition is a party they don't like. Even on unanimous votes and decisions where the opposition agrees with a motion / proposed bill, they must still oppose and voice opposing views in the process. A lot of it is theatre as a result, but that's politics.

Whether people believe he is over the top in how he opposes is another matter entirely.

Actually what some of the more partisan folks on this board consistently fail to understand is that criticism and opposing views should come from every party, including within their own governing party. It was actually a little refreshing to see this happen within the opposition party earlier this week.

[Firebot]

https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en...rlSession=41-2

https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en...cumentTypeId=3

What you will notice from when Harper was government, despite having 166 seats and a majority, the votes were never unanimous, and rarely even ever had 166 votes or more. What the CPC is doing under Poilievre as opposition is nothing out of the ordinary.

People are acting as if the opposition needs to agree with the government just because they personally agree with them over a party they personally don't like.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

To some degree this is accurate but in reality they should only be criticizing the decisions they actually disagree with. If they can’t make that distinction then why should the public believe a word they say?

That isn't their role. Their role is to voice differing views. This means even in a situation where the party agrees with a bill, they must still criticize.

The CPC put a motion asking to remove oil and gas emissions cap that was defeated earlier this year, yet all of a sudden it's part of the budget. That's politics.

Actually what some of the more partisan folks on this board consistently fail to understand is that criticism and opposing views should come from every party, including within their own governing party. It was actually a little refreshing to see this happen within the opposition party earlier this week.

If you are talking about d'Entremont, the CPC deserves to fall apart. Poilievre almost single handedly turfed their chances of governing in what should have been the biggest gimme election they could have dreamed. Carney and the Liberals also wouldn't have won the election if MPs within the party didn't do a full blown mutiny against Trudeau. All of a sudden, the bloc defending carbon taxes starts bashing it as soon as Trudeau is out of the picture, and now it's gone. Funny how that happens..

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Firebot

https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en...rlSession=41-2

https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en...cumentTypeId=3

What you will notice from when Harper was government, despite having 166 seats and a majority, the votes were never unanimous, and rarely even ever had 166 votes or more. What the CPC is doing under Poilievre as opposition is nothing out of the ordinary.

People are acting as if the opposition needs to agree with the government just because they personally agree with them over a party they personally don't like.

Comparing to a majority Government situation isn't really relevant to the conversation though.

In a Majority Government situation, sure go ahead and say no to everything regardless of how you feel about it. Functionally it doesn't really matter.

But when there is a Minority Government, you can/do have some say in what actually gets passed.

If you think your role is to just say no to everything without compromise, as PP has done, then don't complain when a 3rd party comes in and gets what they want instead of you. PP complained constantly that Singh and the NDP had too much influence on policy, but that was HIS fault. He could have worked with the Liberals on key policy to get a compromise, instead, he stomped his feet and complained while Singh saw an opportunity to get what he wanted.

"Holding the government accountable" doesn't just mean voting no in a symbolic, useless way. It also means using your position, and votes, to get the to compromise when you can. And, that sometimes will mean working with, supporting, and voting with them.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Comparing to a majority Government situation isn't really relevant to the conversation though.

In a Majority Government situation, sure go ahead and say no to everything regardless of how you feel about it. Functionally it doesn't really matter.

But when there is a Minority Government, you can/do have some say in what actually gets passed.

If you think your role is to just say no to everything without compromise, as PP has done, then don't complain when a 3rd party comes in and gets what they want instead of you. PP complained constantly that Singh and the NDP had too much influence on policy, but that was HIS fault. He could have worked with the Liberals on key policy to get a compromise, instead, he stomped his feet and complained with Singh saw an opportunity to get what he wanted.

"Holding the government accountable" doesn't just mean voting no in a symbolic, useless way. It also means using your position, and votes, to get the to compromise when you can. And, that sometimes will mean working with, supporting, and voting with them.

That's assuming the LPC would work with the CPC, which they wouldn't.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by peter12

That's assuming the LPC would work with the CPC, which they wouldn't.

It's Trudeau's fault PP is a crappy leader.