Vladar and Cooley

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Sandman

It seems like I had to defend Vladar from the day we acquired him. I knew he was better than what he was showing, and I thought we should be keeping him through his prime years.

There's no point in paying $3.35M for a backup, even a good one, when the team is unlikely to make the playoffs, and would definitely not be a threat to go anywhere in the playoffs even if they did. Swapping him for Cooley was just good management from Conroy.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Sandman

It seems like I had to defend Vladar from the day we acquired him. I knew he was better than what he was showing, and I thought we should be keeping him through his prime years.

Vladar was under-rated here for sure. It's SOP for Flames fans to under-rate Flames players and over-rate players on other teams, there is this weird anti-homer thing going on with our fanbase. Yes, there are some homers around, but collectively, we hate what we have and long for what we don't have. As an example, when Tkachuk and Gaudreau were here, a large portion of the fanbase thought they were second tier, and not true first-line players. The moment they got traded, they were both deified. It's what we do.

I am not surprised that Vladar looks good in Philly, and I am not at all surprised that fans are starting to realize he wasn't so bad and maybe they were too critical of him.

[Goriders]

Grass isn’t always greener

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Vladar was under-rated here for sure. It's SOP for Flames fans to under-rate Flames players and over-rate players on other teams, there is this weird anti-homer thing going on with our fanbase. Yes, there are some homers around, but collectively, we hate what we have and long for what we don't have. As an example, when Tkachuk and Gaudreau were here, a large portion of the fanbase thought they were second tier, and not true first-line players. The moment they got traded, they were both deified. It's what we do.

I am not surprised that Vladar looks good in Philly, and I am not at all surprised that fans are starting to realize he wasn't so bad and maybe they were too critical of him.

True for Tkachuk but not true for Johnny. He was not doing good in Columbus
Vladar is doing good now just to show how bad the Flames were and they were saved by their goalies last year

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

I like Vladar and wished he would have stayed.

That said, looking at his numbers right now in the context of his overall career, they are going to fall. The question is how much and for long do they fall. Is it a periodic hot streak like he would get here, or is it something more sustainable? We shall see...

The ‘context of Vladar’s career’ is that he was thrown in against good teams, and on the second of back to backs, while the starter (Markstrom to start, and last year Wolf) got the majority of games inclusive of a good share of the muffins. That’s how the Flsmes ran their goalies

I have pointed this out a few times.

Wolf was flat out amazing against the bottom 3 teams in the West and the bottom 3 teams in the east. That is where he padded his stats. Against the losers. He got 11 of the 12 games against the duds and pretty much ran the tables.

Against the rest of the league (noting that Vladar didn’t get those muffins), he and Vladar were roughly equivalent.. both were ~within a game of .500


It should be accepted that good teams are better at scoring than bad teams, therefore you should be able to deduce that goalies who play only against good teams will likely end up having worse stats than goalies that also get to face bad teams.

And as Estrada noted, coaching and the team in front of the goalie matters.
Ullmark left Boston for Ottawa. How’s that going? Boston loses Krejci, Bergeron and Chara and sub in Lindholm and Zadorov. How is Swayman doing?
Roloson and Fernandez both put up .930+ under Lemaire in Minny

I suspect he will have better than career stats considering the circumstances under which he achieved his career stats, compared to those he is playing under now

[dino7c]

Vladar gives up 4 on 19 and is pulled with a .798 tonight

The old CP jinx

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Itse

There's no point in paying $3.35M for a backup, even a good one, when the team is unlikely to make the playoffs, and would definitely not be a threat to go anywhere in the playoffs even if they did. Swapping him for Cooley was just good management from Conroy.

Jussie Soros backed up for Pekka Rinne for 5 years before he took over the net. Could have let Vladar as number 1 this year on a deal then traded him. That indicates poor asset management. He walked for nothing.sometimes it is addition by subtraction but this is not one of those times.

[dino7c]

"let him be #1 and then trade him" He wanted to sign somewhere he would he could be the starter for multiple years

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by dino7c

"let him be #1 and then trade him" He wanted to sign somewhere he would he could be the starter for multiple years

Cp timed me out of a super detailed qoute but short story..

Out side of Roy (20 years old) any winning goalie has been plus 2 or minus 2 of 30 years of age and always played backup.

Vladar should have been 1 for at least another 2 years.

[Goriders]

Wolf slowly creeping his save percentage up. He’s currently at 0.895. And his goals against average down. Currently 3.19.

Still hope they give Cooley some more starts. Small sample size but 0.933 save percentage and 1.95 goals against average is nothing to sneeze at.

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by Goriders

0.933 save percentage and 1.95 goals against average is nothing to sneeze at.

Especially on a last place team.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

Especially on a last place team.

He’s played very well. Not what I expected. Pleasantly surprised.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Vladar gives up 4 on 19 and is pulled with a .798 tonight

The old CP jinx

Bounced back with a 23/24 performance and 3-1 last night. No point in just cherry picking his bad games. I'm not a fan of the player as he wasn't good enough for the Flames but he's showing that he can be effective playing for a head coach that's trying to keep games low scoring.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

The ‘context of Vladar’s career’ is that he was thrown in against good teams, and on the second of back to backs, while the starter (Markstrom to start, and last year Wolf) got the majority of games inclusive of a good share of the muffins. That’s how the Flsmes ran their goalies

I have pointed this out a few times.

Wolf was flat out amazing against the bottom 3 teams in the West and the bottom 3 teams in the east. That is where he padded his stats. Against the losers. He got 11 of the 12 games against the duds and pretty much ran the tables.

Against the rest of the league (noting that Vladar didn’t get those muffins), he and Vladar were roughly equivalent.. both were ~within a game of .500


It should be accepted that good teams are better at scoring than bad teams, therefore you should be able to deduce that goalies who play only against good teams will likely end up having worse stats than goalies that also get to face bad teams.

And as Estrada noted, coaching and the team in front of the goalie matters.
Ullmark left Boston for Ottawa. How’s that going? Boston loses Krejci, Bergeron and Chara and sub in Lindholm and Zadorov. How is Swayman doing?
Roloson and Fernandez both put up .930+ under Lemaire in Minny

I suspect he will have better than career stats considering the circumstances under which he achieved his career stats, compared to those he is playing under now

Woah there.

I like Vladar, said that in my post.

I think you're missing the point - you can argue he's played good teams or bad teams, had the best or the worst assignments, etc - but if you look at the context of his career, i.e. his stats, until so far this season - he has had one season with a sv pct above 0.9.

Could he figure it out this seaon? Sure. But its also only been 9 games, cherry picking bad games or good games doesn't change that.

And all this, like I said, coming from a Vladar fan.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Bounced back with a 23/24 performance and 3-1 last night. No point in just cherry picking his bad games. I'm not a fan of the player as he wasn't good enough for the Flames but he's showing that he can be effective playing for a head coach that's trying to keep games low scoring.

Its was a joke about CP...he had two really bad games in a row (.800 vs Montreal and .798 vs. Toronto) directly after this thread started, I mean people on here were talking Vezina lol

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Cooley 1.98, .933
Suck it Darth!

(Jk)

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Woah there.

I like Vladar, said that in my post.

I think you're missing the point - you can argue he's played good teams or bad teams, had the best or the worst assignments, etc - but if you look at the context of his career, i.e. his stats, until so far this season - he has had one season with a sv pct above 0.9.

Could he figure it out this seaon? Sure. But its also only been 9 games, cherry picking bad games or good games doesn't change that.

And all this, like I said, coming from a Vladar fan.

No, I think you missed the point

The reason he was sub .900 is because of the teams he played.

The opponents / assignments - those are the context. It was the same with Markstrom as it was with Wolf.

The save percentage, that is the outcome. Not the context


All he needed to ‘figure out’ was that he had no path to #1 here.

Wolf got the muffin assignments while Vladar did heavy lifting without muffins, and performed comparably, in similar CONTEXT.

And Wolf got PAID. $$$$$$$


He had nothing to ‘figure out’ on the goaltending front other than what was a position for him to potentially succeed, and he took it