Having heard that teachers are exhausted and under resourced to provide mandated standardized testing…
Nicolaides today…
Introduced more standardized testing!
Why is my first thought that the ucp will use this info to somehow pump private schools?
So I was in convo with a colleague, who told me that elementary schools are literally exceeding their printing budget just to print all of these stupid assessments. They also are using up money to get sub coverage (that they’re short on) to implement all of these assessments.
Make teachers teach a minimally piloted curriculum that’s packed with too much content, encumber the teachers with more assessments, and underfund them so class sizes are massive and they can’t print nor get subs. It’s literally sabotage.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751
The Oilers won't finish 14th in the West forever.
Eventually a couple of expansion teams will be added which will nestle the Oilers into 16th.
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Point Blank please correct me if I'm wrong but K-3 teachers would know if kids are falling behind without having to implement the standardized test wouldn't they? Use the money to increase access to teacher supports rather than more administration!
I’m team data is important to evaluate effectiveness of education.
Does it have to be standardized testing? No, but we should have a systematic means of assessment that remain as consistent over years that is reported back to the minister.
It needs to avoid things like teaching to the tests or human reporting biases so it’s difficult to do and needs to measure the right things
It also needs to be supported with resources
But aggregated data on performance of students overtime is critical to making evaluations on things like class sizes and curriculum effectiveness
Point Blank please correct me if I'm wrong but K-3 teachers would know if kids are falling behind without having to implement the standardized test wouldn't they? Use the money to increase access to teacher supports rather than more administration!
Yes the teachers know. All the standardized tests end up taking a huge amount of class time, particularly early grades where some of them are one on one assessments - resulting in less time to actually correct the issues that the teachers already knew about.
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Nowadays with the camp-grind of summer, I think I would rather have year-round schooling with breaks that allow for vacationing. Ideally the breaks would align on a couple of big holidays like Xmas and then be counter-cyclical to other timings like "spring break".
Traveling in the off season can be very enjoyable and way more cost effective.
Summer camp grind? lol.
School is school. It’s not daycare.
Parent your kids, don’t leave that to your he teachers to do for you.
I’m team data is important to evaluate effectiveness of education.
Does it have to be standardized testing? No, but we should have a systematic means of assessment that remain as consistent over years that is reported back to the minister.
It needs to avoid things like teaching to the tests or human reporting biases so it’s difficult to do and needs to measure the right things
It also needs to be supported with resources
But aggregated data on performance of students overtime is critical to making evaluations on things like class sizes and curriculum effectiveness
Here is a novel idea, how about we have teachers provide grades to the children. We could put them in some form of "report card".
Standardized testing at k-3 is ####ing absurd.
Last edited by Torture; 11-03-2025 at 10:53 PM.
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Point Blank please correct me if I'm wrong but K-3 teachers would know if kids are falling behind without having to implement the standardized test wouldn't they? Use the money to increase access to teacher supports rather than more administration!
Like anyone honed to their craft, a teacher would know within minutes of interacting with a student.
When I taught elementary, all I needed was a bit of time listening to a student read out loud to me and I could estimate their reading level, recommend an appropriate literacy goal, suggest a challenging but not impossible novel based on their interests, and put them in an appropriate grouping of students aimed at working on the same goal together.
I tracked all of this with data on spreadsheets- including formally benchmarked reading levels completed 3x a year, goals achieved, next goals, and daily anecdotal notes. Almost every elementary teacher is required to capture this kind of data in some way.
Standardized testing is an important data point, but excessive standardized testing leads to loss of teacher agency. Standardized testing cannot capture the full breadth of what teacher professional judgement can, and when there’s so many standardized tests to write, what is implied is that the government doesn’t trust a teacher to do their job properly.
What elementary kids need is time with a teacher. They do not need to spend hours writing tests, they need an adult to sit with them to remind them of their reading goal, watch them as they attempt their goals, and give feedback on how they did. Elementary kids can grow amazingly in a year, but it takes thoughtful lesson planning and intentional design of learning conditions. These tests take so much of that time away that it’s incredibly detrimental to their growth and development.
I guess since this is a hockey forum and there seems to be great respect for Danielle Fujita, I’ll bring her up as she’s a great example of what a student needs. If you listen to her talk about how she coaches skating, you would immediately understand why she’s so good for a hockey player’s development. I see education much in the same way as Fujita sees coaching, that in order to see measurable change in learning, teachers need to give small manageable feedback for students to try and monitor their growth over time. At some point, we need to let Fujita cook instead of wasting 2-3 months a year telling a hockey player with where they rank on fitness, top speed, etc.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751
The Oilers won't finish 14th in the West forever.
Eventually a couple of expansion teams will be added which will nestle the Oilers into 16th.
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Like anyone honed to their craft, a teacher would know within minutes of interacting with a student.
When I taught elementary, all I needed was a bit of time listening to a student read out loud to me and I could estimate their reading level, recommend an appropriate literacy goal, suggest a challenging but not impossible novel based on their interests, and put them in an appropriate grouping of students aimed at working on the same goal together.
I tracked all of this with data on spreadsheets- including formally benchmarked reading levels completed 3x a year, goals achieved, next goals, and daily anecdotal notes. Almost every elementary teacher is required to capture this kind of data in some way.
Standardized testing is an important data point, but excessive standardized testing leads to loss of teacher agency. Standardized testing cannot capture the full breadth of what teacher professional judgement can, and when there’s so many standardized tests to write, what is implied is that the government doesn’t trust a teacher to do their job properly.
What elementary kids need is time with a teacher. They do not need to spend hours writing tests, they need an adult to sit with them to remind them of their reading goal, watch them as they attempt their goals, and give feedback on how they did. Elementary kids can grow amazingly in a year, but it takes thoughtful lesson planning and intentional design of learning conditions. These tests take so much of that time away that it’s incredibly detrimental to their growth and development.
I guess since this is a hockey forum and there seems to be great respect for Danielle Fujita, I’ll bring her up as she’s a great example of what a student needs. If you listen to her talk about how she coaches skating, you would immediately understand why she’s so good for a hockey player’s development. I see education much in the same way as Fujita sees coaching, that in order to see measurable change in learning, teachers need to give small manageable feedback for students to try and monitor their growth over time. At some point, we need to let Fujita cook instead of wasting 2-3 months a year telling a hockey player with where they rank on fitness, top speed, etc.
All that, and your humble?
Incredible.
I jest. It would be a better world if everyone cared this much.
I jest. It would be a better world if everyone cared this much.
We do. But instead of having time and space to enact it, we’re drowning in paperwork, data entry, and have way too many kids in our classrooms without enough time or support.
I’m team data is important to evaluate effectiveness of education.
Does it have to be standardized testing? No, but we should have a systematic means of assessment that remain as consistent over years that is reported back to the minister.
It needs to avoid things like teaching to the tests or human reporting biases so it’s difficult to do and needs to measure the right things
It also needs to be supported with resources
But aggregated data on performance of students overtime is critical to making evaluations on things like class sizes and curriculum effectiveness
You are misunderstanding the data that is being gathered and delivered. It is not simply aggregated data on the performance of students. For some reason the Ministry of Education and more specifically the Minister of Education, needs the granular and personal data of the students.
There is absolutely no good reason for an elected politician to receive the personal data of students. Here, Lisa can tell you about it and show you the pages on the GoA website.
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You are misunderstanding the data that is being gathered and delivered. It is not simply aggregated data on the performance of students. For some reason the Ministry of Education and more specifically the Minister of Education, needs the granular and personal data of the students.
There is absolutely no good reason for an elected politician to receive the personal data of students. Here, Lisa can tell you about it and show you the pages on the GoA website.
Maybe they need to identify illiterate students so they know who their future supporters are and where they live?
I really hope every MLA in the province ends up having a recall petition started, and then the UCP will have to justify why the only valid choice isn't to call a general election. They may not have lost the confidence of the legislature, but they lost the confidence of the people. And it's All. Their. Fault.
I’m team data is important to evaluate effectiveness of education.
Does it have to be standardized testing? No, but we should have a systematic means of assessment that remain as consistent over years that is reported back to the minister.
Not to be flippant, but I don't think educational outcomes are truly understood for decades after education is complete. I also think that it is not the only factor in those outcomes.
How pleased are you with the state of our society at the moment? Would you say it is "high IQ"?
Our Premier graduated in 1988, and would have been subject to the policy choices of ministers who held their position from 1970 - 1988. What testing from that time period is Nicolaides looking at today and making decisions around? Are we a species that is self-reflective and honest enough to say "yeah, I'm a bloody mess, let's do it differently for the kids today so the kids in 30 years can't say the same"? Sadly, I don't think so.
What about the people who were educated here, and moved away? Or were educated elsewhere, and came here in adulthood? What can we ascribe to our education system given how mobile populations are?
Looking at the major longitudinal studies on this subject is interesting. They measured factors like educational attainment, employment stability and earnings, criminal justice involvement, BMI, cardiovascular health, substance use patterns, relationship stability and family formation, home ownership and asset accumulation, life satisfaction and mental health metrics.
Is any of that being measured and plugged back into education policy choices? Doesn't really seem like it, but I will admit that I am very ignorant about this subject in general.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
If the NHL ever needs an enema, Edmonton is where they'll insert it.
