10-31-2025, 06:03 PM
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#361
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aarongavey
It is hard to say which rebuild the Flames are emulating because nobody has ever ripped it down to the studs and traded as many vets as the Flames have since Conroy took over.
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You haven’t ripped it down to the studs when you have Huberdeau , Backlund, Kadri, Weegar, Andersson.
They may gave traded vets, but they are far from the studs.
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10-31-2025, 06:14 PM
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#362
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by united
The Flames may (not will - just pure speculation) have some bias toward Verhoeff given Verhoeff lived with the Iginlas when attending RINK in Kelowna as a teamate of Joe and under head coach Jarome, and now lives with Cole Reschny in Grand Forks. They will certainly have a good read on his character in any event.
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Reminds me of the Seth Jones vs MacKinnon dilemma that Sakic was supposedly in. Was friends with Popeye, and he personally knew Seth Jones very well, but still picked MacKinnon.
It is still early, so anything can happen, but I would personally be surprised if McKenna isn't the #1 rated pick all year long, and if he is first on Calgary's list, and Calgary is picking first, I would assume it would be McKenna.
However, 25.5% chance of picking McKenna, so maybe the Flames next best choice would be Verhoeff, and it would indeed make for a nice story, that's for sure!!
FWIW, McKenna and Reshny have played together on the same line already, so there's an interesting tie-in as well.
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10-31-2025, 06:18 PM
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#363
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
You haven’t ripped it down to the studs when you have Huberdeau , Backlund, Kadri, Weegar, Andersson.
They may gave traded vets, but they are far from the studs.
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By your definition, no team has ever ‘ripped it down to the studs’. The Flames have already come as close as any team in the cap era.
Huberdeau is untradable. Backlund doesn't want to go anywhere and would probably retire rather than accept a trade to a destination he doesn't like. Weegar has enormous value as a player who can show Parekh and other young D how to defend well against NHL opponents. Kadri and Andersson are the subject of constant trade rumours, and it's clearly only a matter of time before they are both moved.
Seems to me you're complaining because a thing that never happens in October didn't happen this October, either.
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10-31-2025, 06:20 PM
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#364
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Franchise Player
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I would argue that this is already down to the studs. Comparing how many players were sold-off as compared to other teams that burnt it right to the ground, Calgary has probably sold-off more players.
I think you only have studs left. I would go so far as to argue that when Andersson gets traded (or Kadri), it will be like the load bearing wall keeping the roof up being knocked down. I think it will gut this team enough and likely result in not playing as hard the rest of the way through, and probably finishing last. Remove Kadri + Andersson, and I think the Flames guarantee last place.
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10-31-2025, 06:34 PM
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#365
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
You haven’t ripped it down to the studs when you have Huberdeau , Backlund, Kadri, Weegar, Andersson.
They may gave traded vets, but they are far from the studs.
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Well fair but no team has ever done it down to the studs so I probably misspoke on that one. It is basically an unheard of concept in the NHL. They certainly have traded more vets for picks and prospects than any other team ever has so in that sense they have ripped it down to the studs more than any team in NHL history.
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10-31-2025, 06:46 PM
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#366
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe
I would go so far as to argue that when Andersson gets traded (or Kadri), it will be like the load bearing wall keeping the roof up being knocked down.
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I think that's a really good analogy. Frighteningly good, actually, because I've seen it literally done.
I had a fool of a neighbour once who took out the telepost in the middle of his basement because it broke up the space in his rec room. When I saw it (after he sold the house but before anyone moved in), the whole main floor was sagging, all the kitchen cabinets were out of true, and one good snowfall would have been enough to collapse the roof and bring the whole place down. The only thing keeping the house up was a jack that the new owner put in to hold up the main floor beam until he could do proper repairs.
I think Weegar is the telepost holding up the Flames' D right now. Removing Andersson will weaken the whole structure; removing Weegar would collapse it. I sincerely hope they keep Weegar so Parekh can have an on-ice role model to help him learn to play the hard minutes against top-line opponents; and so the other young players can learn the NHL game in some kind of structured environment as opposed to a perennial dumpster fire.
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Last edited by Jay Random; 10-31-2025 at 06:49 PM.
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10-31-2025, 06:48 PM
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#367
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
I think that's a really good analogy. Frighteningly good, actually, because I've seen it actually done.
I had a fool of a neighbour once who took out the telepost in the middle of his basement because it broke up the space in his rec room. When I saw it (after he sold the house but before anyone moved in), the whole main floor was sagging, all the kitchen cabinets were out of true, and one good snowfall would have been enough to collapse the roof and bring the whole place down. The only thing keeping the house up was a jack that the new owner put in to hold up the main floor beam until he could do proper repairs.
I think Weegar is the telepost holding up the Flames' D right now. Removing Andersson will weaken the whole structure; removing Weegar would collapse it. I sincerely hope they keep Weegar so Parekh can have an on-ice role model to help him learn to play the hard minutes against top-line opponents.
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Ya trading both should ensure that the Flames are drafting top 4 in the 2029 draft, which I guess could be a good thing depending on how you view such things.
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10-31-2025, 06:51 PM
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#368
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aarongavey
Ya trading both should ensure that the Flames are drafting top 4 in the 2029 draft, which I guess could be a good thing depending on how you view such things.
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It might also help Parekh turn into the next Bouchard or Nurse, which I guess could be a good thing if you're an Oiler fan.
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10-31-2025, 06:55 PM
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#369
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aarongavey
Well fair but no team has ever done it down to the studs so I probably misspoke on that one. It is basically an unheard of concept in the NHL. They certainly have traded more vets for picks and prospects than any other team ever has so in that sense they have ripped it down to the studs more than any team in NHL history.
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Ripping it down to the studs is not about who you trade, but what is left.
Calgary has presently 5 viable older players. The studs is not there yet.
The 2023-2024 Chicago Blackhawks had only Seth Jones left of viable decent older players, and they finally dumped him when they could. They had even previously traded Debrincat , who was a young player who had scored 41 goals at the age of 24.
That's tearing it down to the studs. The bigger difference is the Hawks did not try and resign Kane and Towes etc, they let them all walk. The Flames tried to resign Hanifin and Lindholm, they only traded them when they wouldn't accept what Conroy considered reasonable deals. But there was not any intention of the Flames at that time to tear it down to the studs. That has occurred only once the Fleams really had no choice.
Now the Flames may well be getting there. I expect they will be.
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10-31-2025, 06:55 PM
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#370
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary
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NM wrong threead
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Last edited by dammage79; 10-31-2025 at 07:25 PM.
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10-31-2025, 07:02 PM
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#371
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
Ripping it down to the studs is not about who you trade, but what is left.
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What was left last year was so close to the salary floor that they really couldn't trade away anyone of significance without taking salary back.
This year, with the new contracts for Coronato, Sharangovich, and Bahl, they have room to ship out a couple more high-priced vets, and I fully expect that to happen once other teams get in a trading mood.
‘Down to the studs’ is a relative term in a league with a salary floor.
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10-31-2025, 10:26 PM
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#372
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
Ripping it down to the studs is not about who you trade, but what is left.
Calgary has presently 5 viable older players. The studs is not there yet.
The 2023-2024 Chicago Blackhawks had only Seth Jones left of viable decent older players, and they finally dumped him when they could. They had even previously traded Debrincat , who was a young player who had scored 41 goals at the age of 24.
That's tearing it down to the studs. The bigger difference is the Hawks did not try and resign Kane and Towes etc, they let them all walk. The Flames tried to resign Hanifin and Lindholm, they only traded them when they wouldn't accept what Conroy considered reasonable deals. But there was not any intention of the Flames at that time to tear it down to the studs. That has occurred only once the Fleams really had no choice.
Now the Flames may well be getting there. I expect they will be.
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Well they also had Taylor Hall, Nick Foligno, Tyler Johnson, Connor Murphy, Pete Mrazek, Corey Perry, Andreas Athanasieu, Jason Dickinson and Ryan Donato.
But if you do not count those 9 veterans they tore it down to the studs. Part of the effort to tear it down to the studs was trading two younger players for Hall and Foligno that year. Trading a draft pick for Corey Perry.
They also did not let Toews walk, he got long COVID.
Last edited by Aarongavey; 10-31-2025 at 10:32 PM.
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10-31-2025, 11:11 PM
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#373
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Calgary
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“Ripping it down to the studs” still applies if the vets you take back in trade look like an island of broken toys. To the Flames, that term means we still have viable veterans that can actually help a team win that we can trade- Kadri, Andersson, Coleman, and Weegar. We will likely have to run with other teams’ throwaways for a while if we get rid of our good vets- thus, ripping it down to the studs.
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11-01-2025, 12:45 AM
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#374
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
That's tearing it down to the studs. The bigger difference is the Hawks did not try and resign Kane and Towes etc, they let them all walk. The Flames tried to resign Hanifin and Lindholm, they only traded them when they wouldn't accept what Conroy considered reasonable deals. But there was not any intention of the Flames at that time to tear it down to the studs. That has occurred only once the Fleams really had no choice.
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Kane and Toews were 33 and 34 respectively in their last seasons in Chicago while Hanifin and Lindholm were 26 and 29 during their last seasons in Calgary. In the case of Hanifin especially, re-signing him wasn't a bad option.
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11-01-2025, 06:39 AM
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#375
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Calgary
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A few more takeaways from Central Scouting's Preliminary Rankings:
-Big fan of LD Malte Gustafsson here (I was a big fan of his brother Viggo as well), who is deservedly ranked "A". He was a favorite of mine to watch at the Hlinka (6 points in 5 games), with an exciting blend of size (6.4.25",200lbs) and mobility. Like his older brother, he exerts a sound shutdown game, but possesses more ability in transition and in the offensive zone; right now, he's 6th in scoring by D in the U20 league with 9 points in 13 games.
-It will be interesting to see where "A" ranked LW Ethan Belchetz gets selected in the draft- right now, he's outperforming fellow "A"-ranked behemoth Ryan Roobreck (9 goals and 15 points in 15 games), piling up 12 goals and 19 points in 15 games. Belchetz is younger (born in March of 2008, while Roobreck was born in September of 2007), bigger (he is 6'5",228lbs, while Roobreck is 6'2.75",215, according to CS), and I would argue more skilled with a higher IQ. I would even say that Belchetz is faster, more physical, and more impactful defensively as well. He was tied for the lead in scoring for Team Canada at the Hlinka with Mathis Preston, both putting up 4 goals and 7 points in 5 games.
-Speaking of winger Mathis Preston, he is also rated "A" by CS, but he's struggling a bit with Spokane of the WHL- with only 12 points in 14 games; he should be well above a ppg, when one considers that he registered 45 points in 54 games last season. The reason for this may be the fact that the Chiefs lost a boatload of their talent from last season, and are struggling as a group to score- sitting 19th in the 23-team WHL in goals-for (40), and 9th in the standings (they were 4th last year). Incredibly, Preston still leads his team in scoring by 3 points. Though his production and size (5'10.75",177lbs) might hurt his draft standing, and may even take him out of the top-10, he easily has top-5 skill, with top-notch vision and IQ that enables him to control the play with the puck on his stick. He was no less than impressive at the Hlinka, showing off his dynamic hands, explosive speed, and play-driving ability.
-There are many very impressive defensemen available in the first round this year, and "A" rated Carson Carels is one that might not be getting the respect he deserves. He's already a near-spotless shutdown defenseman, and a weapon against the rush with his excellent 4-way mobility, well-timed stickwork, and physicality- but he's not afraid to join the rush or pinch in off the point in search of offense. Right now, he's 15th in scoring by D in the WHL with 11 points in 13 games, and 3rd in scoring for U-18 blueliners, while standing 6'1.5", and 202lbs.
-"A" rated RD Ryan Lin is the top-scoring U-18 defenseman in the WHL right now (20 points in 15 games), and if he can keep up his 1.33 ppg pace, he will finish 10th all-time in that stat for U-18 rearguards. His 53 points in 60 games in 2024-25 represent the 9th-most by a U-17 defenseman in WHL history, and he is the top-scoring blueliner in the WHL right now by a whopping 7 points. Lin is a bit small for a defenseman (5'11",177lbs), and needs a little work on his shot, but there are no other real glaring weaknesses in his game- he's a top-notch skater, overflowing with skill, responsible defensively, physical when needed, and highly intelligent in all facets of the game. He's on pace for 91 points in 68 games, and may go top-5 in the draft- if not, top-10 for sure.
-The rankings for "A" rated RD Juho Piiparainen (6'1";201lbs) are all over the place, with some placing him late in the first, to Craig Button putting him at fourth-overall. Pips is the only U-18 defenseman to play in the Liiga so far this year, and he's put up 2 assists in 14 games, with a solid +7, looking like he belongs and appearing poised. He isn't too dynamic or flashy in any way, his skating could use another gear or two, and his shot isn't anything special, but this kid is already playing a mature, pro-style game- he is detailed defensively, active offensively, and a calming presence on the backend- with, and without the puck. Look for him in the first-round.
-RD Chase Reid (6'2.25",188lbs) is another sure-fire first-rounder who might not be garnering the attention he deserves, although he's starting to overcome fellow rearguard Daxon Rudolph in the rankings. Reid is an American playing for the Soo Greyhounds, and has 16 points in 17 games to date- a pace that would give him 64 points in 68 games. The Soo have improved this season, currently sitting in a 3-way tie for 4th-place in the OHL, and have scored the 4th-most goals (61) in the league- with Reid 2nd in scoring on the team. Reid was perceived to be more of an offensive defenseman before the season began, but he apparently has made huge strides in his defensive game to become more of an all-situations, two-way minute-muncher with mobility, physicality, and an improved shutdown game, while still being an offensive catalyst in the other end of the rink.
-Before the season began, I would've said that RD Daxon Rudolph (6'2.25",206lbs) was a shoe-in to be the second defenseman taken off the board in the draft behind Verhoeff, but it seems that the gulf between the two has widened a bit in some scouts' eyes. Prince Albert is currently the 4th-best team in the WHL, and Rudolph is still easily their top blueliner, but he seems to be struggling a bit this season in both ends of the ice, with only 9 points in 12 games- after posting 41 points in 64 games in 2024-25 (that mark represents the 17-best total by a U-17 defenseman in WHL history). When he's on his game, Rudolph is a highly mobile two-way player who is a virtual stalwart defensively, money against the rush, a solid puck-mover and stickhandler, and an active playmaker with skill. I still believe it's between Rudolph and Lin for the 2nd defenseman taken in the draft.
-Yet another righty, D Luke Schairer (6'3",195lbs) was surprisingly given an "A" by Cs to start the season, mostly because of his tantalizing skill-set, size, and impressive mobility. He's a superb rush-killer, and an excellent defensive player with smarts and range, who works incredibly hard, and plays with a physical edge. They say he has top-4 potential, but his offense and decision-making are question marks; he only has 2 points in 14 games with the NTDP- though it's not a very good squad again this season.
-LD Alberts Smits (6'3",205lbs) has plenty of fans in the scouting world, and some say he's a potential first-rounder; mostly because he has exploded for 6 goals and 10 points in just 5 U20 games, and 9 points in 18 Liiga games- superhuman numbers for a defenseman who doesn't turn 18 until December. Smits is said to be hyper-aggressive, and highly active with excellent mobility paired with high motor in both ends of the rink, but his penchant for risk-taking can get him in trouble, and often leaves scouts pondering his hockey-sense and decision-making. He looks to be a player with a wide array of impressive tools, but will need time to sort his game out a bit.
-In 2024-25, "A" rated LD Xavier Villeneuve (5'11",162lbs) finished 2nd-overall in scoring by D in the Quebec League with an incredible 62 points in 61 games, which ranks as the 22nd-best season by a U-18 blueliner in the history of the league (his ppg of 1.02 is tied for 12th), earning him the award for the QMJHL's Top Defenseman- only the third 17 year-old to receive that honor. This season, he is off to a torrid start, with 22 points in just 16 games for the Blainville-Boisbriand Armada, who are one of the best squads in the Q, and he is on pace for 88 points in 64 games. He was also 2nd in D scoring at the U-18's, with 8 points in 7 games for Team Canada, tied for the 18th-best total for D in the tournament's history. Villeneuve is a high-end skater with speed and uncommon agility, who could stickhandle in a phone booth- drawing comparisons to Montreal's Lane Hutson. He's a lights-out offensive defenseman with vision and creativity, but is working hard to shore up his defensive game.
More to come....
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11-01-2025, 10:07 AM
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#376
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aarongavey
Well they also had Taylor Hall, Nick Foligno, Tyler Johnson, Connor Murphy, Pete Mrazek, Corey Perry, Andreas Athanasieu, Jason Dickinson and Ryan Donato.
But if you do not count those 9 veterans they tore it down to the studs. Part of the effort to tear it down to the studs was trading two younger players for Hall and Foligno that year. Trading a draft pick for Corey Perry.
They also did not let Toews walk, he got long COVID.
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None of those players were above average NHL players at the time. None would have brought much if anything in a trade. You still need to field a team, so having a bunch of older players most teams wouldn’t want isn’t indicative of much.
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11-01-2025, 10:23 AM
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#377
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
None of those players were above average NHL players at the time. None would have brought much if anything in a trade. You still need to field a team, so having a bunch of older players most teams wouldn’t want isn’t indicative of much.
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Taylor Hall was and still is an above average NHL player.
Foligno put up as many points that season and the next as Coleman usually does and you seem to think he can be traded.
Tyler Johnson has 17 goals in 67 games, probably more than Backlund will get.
Point is they did not tear it to the ground like you said they did. You somehow missed 9 veterans when you stated they traded every single veteran other than Seth Jones. They actually gave up young assets to acquire veteran players. The Hawks did nothing even close to ripping it down to the studs.
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11-01-2025, 01:51 PM
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#378
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Franchise Player
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I believe that is is also noteworthy to state that Toews and Kane both refused to allow Chicago to enter into a rebuild. IIRC, they didn't want to be part of a rebuild, and would not allow themselves to be traded.
I am sure FOSS would remember that period with much more accuracy of course. Their entire rebuild was basically delayed because of this.
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11-01-2025, 07:38 PM
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#379
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austria, NOT Australia
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