Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You eventually came the the correct conclusion at the end. It's the voters, not the party name. No solid Conservative voter(the type that says this is the reason they can't) is going to vote for a new named NDP, and no moderate cares enough about it to matter. It's baffling because the people who keep going back to this well have zero interest of ever honouring their supposed objection to it.


You can look at the Federal Liberals to see how true this is, because they installed a largely Cosnervative leader, and the CPC still had one of their best results since holding a majority. They'll say "this is the reason" but they don't really mean it. And then the cent-e left ends up chasing their tales and excuses when it is a waste of time.

Opendoor recently quoted a Lay's poll that 42% of people don't know that chips are made of potatoes. These people vote.

https://fortune.com/2025/10/10/pepsi...e-of-potatoes/

A&W's Third Pound burger failed versus the quarter pounder as when polled, customers felt they were getting less meat for the same price. These people vote.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/undertheinf...nder-1.5979468


Unlike you however, I don't brand specifically just hard Conservative voters as being braindead and I view a decent portion of the population as being politically illiterate who vote based on partisan lines, feelings or rhetoric versus doing a deep dive into issues and platforms. Forums and social media are not representative of the general population.

Case and point: Kevin Vuong being voted in despite being kicked out the Liberal party, simply because at election time he had the Liberal party brand still attached for the vote.

Case and point: BC Conservative surging and nearly winning just because of their branding despite a very abrasive leader, with the newly named BC United plunging out after removing the Liberal party portion of the name

The federal NDP link is a huge pariah because of their policies, and as long as they maintain their direction the Alberta NDP which frankly is quite different from their federal counterpart (especially in regards to oil and pipelines) will never escape the association. And it's not going to get any better, considering the far left loony direction the federal NDP still wants to go and may choose as leader.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ndp...uels-9.6958669

"We need really straightforward policies that distinguish ourselves from the federal Liberals," Lewis said. "We cannot keep increasing fossil fuel production in this country."

He said the federal NDP must "be able to have disagreements" with its provincial counterparts.

Lewis later added that there are "safe forms" of generating energy "that actually looks to the 21st century."

And he likened society's relationship to fossil fuels to an addiction that he said was fuelled by greed.

"[Fossil fuel addiction] is as much an addiction to the revenues from fossil fuels from provincial and federal governments as it is an addiction to the substance itself."

Yeah that will go over well in selling the NDP name to Albertans while claiming to be different.

The NDP brand has to go in Alberta, if you want to see someone else than the UCP leading in Alberta. Party names absolutely factors in, as does party leaders (as the federal election clearly showed). If your leader is vastly outperforming your own party while also outperforming the opposing leader, you try to bridge that gap. Brand name change is a quick win and the right step when the federal side tries to run the country from a Metro Vancouver perspective.

You can blame the voters all you want, but in the end they are who choose and the orange NDP sign is scary and will remain scary to voters in Alberta. And it allows for this association.

https://unitedconservativecaucus.ca/...hip-candidate/

https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...ral-party-ties

Nenshi says it’s time for the Alberta NDP to cut the apron strings.

“I think the membership has to have a very serious conversation about its links with the federal NDP,” Nenshi said in an interview.

“I believe that our ties to the federal NDP are remnants of a party that wasn’t confident, a party that wasn’t grown up yet, that relied on big brother to look after us.

If the Alberta NDP leader thinks the link is a significant problem deserving very serious conversation, it shouldn't be hard to contemplate how your average voter would see similar, let alone the dumber ones.

[Fuzz]

Nah, anyone concerned about federal NDP ties was never gonna vote for anything other than the Conservative option in the first place. The very people who are highly engaged are the only ones who care about that, and they are the last type to switch off of Conservative. They can change the name, but those people will never vote for them.

[Firebot]

Are you saying Nenshi is wrong in his take? He's the leader.

Considering how small the margins were in some of the ridings last election, even 'tricking' a few hundred voters would be enough.

There is nothing positive about the NDP name in Alberta and keeping the brand is hurting the party rather than helping (Nenshi's point) now that it is able to stand on it's own feet after Notley's leadership.

And considering what happened in the BC election (BC United collapsing after their name change from BC Liberals, and the BC Conservatives surging just by name despite being non-existent previous election and not affiliated to the CPC), people are a lot dumber than you want to admit.

https://vancouversun.com/news/bc-uni...falcon-sarcasm

B.C. United Leader Kevin Falcon couldn’t resist sarcasm when asked on Tuesday how his party’s rebranding from its long-standing identity as the British Columbia Liberals was going.

Article content
“Spectacularly,” he said with a wry laugh, before adding “obviously, I think it could have gone way better.”

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Nah, anyone concerned about federal NDP ties was never gonna vote for anything other than the Conservative option in the first place.

If you ask the average voter in Alberta who doesn't spend 4 hours a day following and researching every political issue over the 4 years between elections what the NDP platform in Alberta I can assure you a lot will say:

Unions
Higher Spending
Anti-Oil
Higher Taxes

That is their brand in Alberta - And if that's not the platform they are running on they need to look at their association to the Federal NDP as that is why people think that.

Wanting/wishing for people to be smarter and more informed isn't a winning strategy

You continue to highly overestimate how much the average citizen cares or knows about politics.

[iggy_oi]

Hypothetically speaking if the NDP were to change their name and get voted in, what do people think the UCP are going to do to get back in office in 4 years time?

[Ped]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Hypothetically speaking if the NDP were to change their name and get voted in, what do people think the UCP are going to do to get back in office in 4 years time?

Change their name to the Alberta is the Awesomest party

[Geraldsh]

Originally Posted by Ped

Change their name to the Alberta is the Awesomest party

It would be Alberta Most Awesomest so they can use the AMA logo.

[RandyHolt]

I've spoken to a few people who won't vote for the UCP next election, but also won't vote for the Alberta NDP while they have ties to the federal NDP. I would say that severing the ties to the federal NDP can do nothing but increase their votes in the short term at least.

Hopefully if the NDP get voted in again, this would be the impetus for the UCP to carve the far right off of their party and let them go be the Wildrose/Freedom Truckers or whatever and move back towards being the Progressive Conservatives that they used to be.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Are you saying Nenshi is wrong in his take? He's the leader.

Considering how small the margins were in some of the ridings last election, even 'tricking' a few hundred voters would be enough.

There is nothing positive about the NDP name in Alberta and keeping the brand is hurting the party rather than helping (Nenshi's point) now that it is able to stand on it's own feet after Notley's leadership.

And considering what happened in the BC election (BC United collapsing after their name change from BC Liberals, and the BC Conservatives surging just by name despite being non-existent previous election and not affiliated to the CPC), people are a lot dumber than you want to admit.

https://vancouversun.com/news/bc-uni...falcon-sarcasm

For how dumb you say Albertans are, why do you think they are going to vote for a non-Conservative party in the first place? If any of them are thinking about switching their vote from the conservatives it is because they are aware enough to understand that the UCP is doing some terrible stuff.

At which point, I highly doubt they are going to care about the NDP brand because they have enough awareness now to understand that "UCP is bad, must vote something else" and may even remember that the NDP has been in power before and the province did not melt down.

The BC political scene is an interesting scenario but I think you are missing pieces of the puzzle. Prior to the name change, the BC Liberals was the right wing party of the province. If you were a federal conservative voter in BC you voted provincially for the Liberals. After the name change to BC United, the conservative voters got confused that their historical party disappeared and moved their votes to the BC Conservatives, after which BC United essentially collapsed and folded into the BC Conservatives.

If anything, the name change of the BC Liberals is an example as to why the ANDP should NOT change their name. Right now people know who the ANDP are and have been willing to allow them to form government in the past. Some people might even think "you know what, things were better under the NDP than they are now under the UCP".

Also, one should remember the history of the NDP. The NDP was previously the CCF (Co-operative Commonwealth Federation), which was founded in Calgary, Alberta. Perhaps we need to do a better job of reminding people that the NDP was originally a Calgary party made up of farmers and labour representatives. Instead of trying to run away from the history, the NDP should work on messaging to embrace it and give Albertans a homegrown alternative to the Cons.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by RandyHolt

I've spoken to a few people who won't vote for the UCP next election, but also won't vote for the Alberta NDP while they have ties to the federal NDP. I would say that severing the ties to the federal NDP can do nothing but increase their votes in the short term at least.

Hopefully if the NDP get voted in again, this would be the impetus for the UCP to carve the far right off of their party and let them go be the Wildrose/Freedom Truckers or whatever and move back towards being the Progressive Conservatives that they used to be.

If they do change their name, go ahead and remember to find out how many vote for the new named party. I'm gonna guess that number is closer to zero than one.

I just think this is another instance of the right pointing out reasons they can't vote any other way, when they have no intention of actually voting differently. These are the same people that voted for someone who said they are done listening to experts and thought she had the pardon powers of a US governor, despite spending her entire adult life involved in Alberta politics. But ya, they'll vote different if they don't see orange on signs. Nonsense.

[RandyHolt]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If they do change their name, go ahead and remember to find out how many vote for the new named party. I'm gonna guess that number is closer to zero than one.

I just think this is another instance of the right pointing out reasons they can't vote any other way, when they have no intention of actually voting differently. These are the same people that voted for someone who said they are done listening to experts and thought she had the pardon powers of a US governor, despite spending her entire adult life involved in Alberta politics. But ya, they'll vote different if they don't see orange on signs. Nonsense.

It's not the NDP name that they're concerned about. It's strictly the ties to the federal NDP party. I agree that it's a strange thing to get hung up on, but people get hung up on the smallest things when deciding who to vote for. And being tied to a party that is very blatantly anti-oil and gas (the federal party), is not something that's going to play well in Alberta.

I mean I have no political background whatsoever, but I can already see the signs and ads with Nenshi and the new federal NDP leader being promoted next election by the UCP, along with whatever the most ridiculous quote the federal NDP leader says. It's absolutely going to cost them votes next election to be tied to the federal NDP.

I don't know if it's possible, but if they're able to sever ties with the federal party and keep the Alberta NDP name, this is the path that they should go for in my opinion. If they would have to change their name due to severing with the federal party, then it's a much harder decision.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Wolven

The BC political scene is an interesting scenario but I think you are missing pieces of the puzzle. Prior to the name change, the BC Liberals was the right wing party of the province. If you were a federal conservative voter in BC you voted provincially for the Liberals. After the name change to BC United, the conservative voters got confused that their historical party disappeared and moved their votes to the BC Conservatives, after which BC United essentially collapsed and folded into the BC Conservatives.

If you have to consistently explain and remind folks in threads that a Liberal branded party is not actually liberal / left and in fact a right wing party (despite Christy Clark attempting to win the Liberal leadership and calling herself a “lifelong Liberal,”), clearly their branding is fooling folks, especially those who just blindly vote Liberal (I really don't quite get this odd thought process being perpetrated by some posters here that only Conservative is somehow capable of blind partisan voting). The BC Liberals and BC Conservatives are quite literally the best example of branding impact and association.

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2023/0...Liberal%20name.

Also, one should remember the history of the NDP. The NDP was previously the CCF (Co-operative Commonwealth Federation), which was founded in Calgary, Alberta. Perhaps we need to do a better job of reminding people that the NDP was originally a Calgary party made up of farmers and labour representatives. Instead of trying to run away from the history, the NDP should work on messaging to embrace it and give Albertans a homegrown alternative to the Cons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-ope...lth_Federation

Its conclusion read, "No CCF Government will rest content until it has eradicated capitalism and put into operation the full programme of socialized planning which will lead to the establishment in Canada of the Co-operative Commonwealth."[15] The party affiliated itself with the Socialist International.[16]

Yeah...that will get people voting for them to remind them of this...

The Alberta NDP has little to do with the federal NDP of today and matured significantly from when they first got elected in 2015, while the federal side significantly regressed. Hence, the name brand change needed.

It's odd, the affiliation is clearly an issue and the federal ties hamper their progress, and some are willfully in denial simply because of some would rather just put their head in the sand than to admit the NDP as a brand has negative connotations in Alberta that is frankly unfair to the current Alberta NDP. It's perfectly ok to admit so, and it shouldn't be controversial.

Meanwhile, 'Liberal' and 'Conservative' parties gear up to fight Vancouver election (no relation to the real parties)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...tics-9.6955985

Both the Vancouver Liberals and Vancouver Conservatives aren’t formally affiliated with federal parties. They are both brand new, so have no history of volunteers, fundraising, or political success.

The top 2 polling Vancouver mayoral candidates, just randomly brand themselves as Liberals / Conservatives parties. Just because...reasons.

[Wormius]

You’d have to have been dropped on your head multiple times as an infant to think party names means one iota to anyone.

[Cain]

Sadly I think party names mean far more than they should. Politics seem to be a team game for large portions of the population, and that name helps them figure out which "team" they need to promote/defend.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by RandyHolt

It's not the NDP name that they're concerned about. It's strictly the ties to the federal NDP party. I agree that it's a strange thing to get hung up on, but people get hung up on the smallest things when deciding who to vote for. And being tied to a party that is very blatantly anti-oil and gas (the federal party), is not something that's going to play well in Alberta.

I mean I have no political background whatsoever, but I can already see the signs and ads with Nenshi and the new federal NDP leader being promoted next election by the UCP, along with whatever the most ridiculous quote the federal NDP leader says. It's absolutely going to cost them votes next election to be tied to the federal NDP.

I don't know if it's possible, but if they're able to sever ties with the federal party and keep the Alberta NDP name, this is the path that they should go for in my opinion. If they would have to change their name due to severing with the federal party, then it's a much harder decision.

Ya, and I'm saying the people expressing concern about ties to the federal NDP have zero intentions of ever voting NDP. So why bother placating them. It's the type of thing the left get hung up on, trying to cater to people whos stated intentions are bull####.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Wormius

You’d have to have been dropped on your head multiple times as an infant to think party names means one iota to anyone.

What's your take on the Vancouver Liberals and Vancouver Conservatives branding choice?

Would you vote for the NDP if it renamed itself the Republican Party of Alberta?

Why do you believe the BC Liberals voted to rebrand itself as the BC United party? Do you believe the rebranding was a success or it failed and why?

Only folks with their heads in the sand think party names don't matter. Yet ironically said same folks will simultaneously tell you why so and so big Conservative will always only vote blue / Conservative so it doesn't matter (and always specify the other side to their own).

It shouldn't matter, but it does because too many treat politics like a team sport.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ya, and I'm saying the people expressing concern about ties to the federal NDP have zero intentions of ever voting NDP. So why bother placating them. It's the type of thing the left get hung up on, trying to cater to people whos stated intentions are bull####.

You still haven't addressed that Nenshi himself has stated significant concerns about ties to the federal NDP, as well as many Alberta NDP members who want nothing to do with the federal NDP.

https://calgary.citynews.ca/2025/05/...ty-membership/

Nenshi told reporters the party’s longtime practice of automatically signing up members to the federal party was a sticking point that scared some potential voters and members away.

The change, he said, will allow his NDP to build a bigger tent.

“It’s a great movement for the very, very many thousands and thousands of Albertans who really like what the Alberta NDP have to say, but don’t necessarily agree with the federal party — and this now gives them that choice,” he said.

“We will welcome those people into our movement. While you’ll still have the option of joining the federal New Democrats, if you join the provincial New Democrats, you don’t have to,” he said.

Nenshi said his NDP is financially independent and dictates its own policy, but party candidates spoke out, saying they needed a better answer when voters at the door tied them to the federal party’s positions during the 2023 provincial election.

You are deliberately in denial. And who is 'them?'

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Firebot

What's your take on the Vancouver Liberals and Vancouver Conservatives branding choice?

Would you vote for the NDP if it renamed itself the Republican Party of Alberta?

Why do you believe the BC Liberals voted to rebrand itself as the BC United party? Do you believe the rebranding was a success or it failed and why?

Only folks with their heads in the sand think party names don't matter. Yet ironically said same folks will simultaneously tell you why so and so big Conservative will always only vote blue / Conservative so it doesn't matter (and always specify the other side to their own).

It shouldn't matter, but it does because too many treat politics like a team sport.

I don’t agree with it and obviously people will still identify them as the party they were named before. It changes nothing, and opposition attack ads will be relentlessly reminding voters too.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Firebot

You still haven't addressed that Nenshi himself has stated significant concerns about ties to the federal NDP, as well as many Alberta NDP members who want nothing to do with the federal NDP.

https://calgary.citynews.ca/2025/05/...ty-membership/



You are deliberately in denial. And who is 'them?'

Am I required to address every persons opinion that is different than mine? Clearly I disagree with him, which you should be able to puzzle out, along with who "they" are, which has been layed out several times.


I'm not in denial of anything, I have a different opinion based on the reality I have observed.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Doesn't that mean "it's the voters" though?

Yeah but you are stuck with the voters. So if they are influenced by the conservative branding you should brand yourself in that manner or certainly not in direct opposition to that manner.

Which is easier changing the emotional attachment to conservatism and against the NDPs socialism or changing the name?