Are you so out of touch that you cannot see Authoritarianism when it hits you in the face? This is straight up American fascism being displayed by the Alberta government.
They are handcuffing the teachers to their desks and force them to work in unreasonable conditions and taking away their right to strike.
My guess is that they think this was the winning move and that now the unions will bow down to their power. My worry is that they want this to escalate into the general strike so they can do something worse.
We need to recall all of them... but I would settle with enough to flip the government.
Im not sure how anyone can think this is a winning move. That's where I'm a bit lost. I think most Albertans will say this unreasonable and coercive. I think it actually galvanizes support for the NDP.
Hence why I'm curious if they retreat to a more defensible position before Wednesday so as to make their final position look reasonable in comparison.
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Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
The fact Gullfoss is not banned for life on here is such an embarrassment. Just a joke.
Im not sure how anyone can think this is a winning move. That's where I'm a bit lost. I think most Albertans will say this unreasonable and coercive. I think it actually galvanizes support for the NDP.
Hence why I'm curious if they retreat to a more defensible position before Wednesday so as to make their final position look reasonable in comparison.
Alberta voters have shown basically unwilling to remember stuff like this ever.
Ok I see the timing of my post might not be great given what the other side just did. I guess I should have posted that 3 weeks ago. Oh well, what is negotiating in good faith? Basically give the teachers what they need to do their jobs or they will shut the whole system down? Sounds more and more like both sides don't want a deal. We all know what the UCP is but I expected more from the educated folks.
“Give the teachers what they need to do their jobs” is a wild ask, you’re right.
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In our office I have posted this Martin Luther King Jr. quote...on the fridge in the kitchen...where basically everyone sees it every day.
Quote:
"You may be 38 years old, as I happen to be. And one day, some great opportunity stands before you and calls you to stand up for some great principle, some great issue, some great cause. And you refuse to do it because you are afraid…You refuse to do it because you want to live longer… You’re afraid that you will lose your job, or you are afraid that you will be criticized or that you will lose your popularity, or you’re afraid that somebody will stab you, or shoot at you or bomb your house; so you refuse to take the stand.
Well, you may go on and live until you are 90, but you’re just as dead at 38 as you would be at 90. And the cessation of breathing in your life is but the belated announcement of an earlier death of the spirit. You died when you refused to stand up for right...You died when you refused to stand up for truth...You died when you refused to stand up for justice."
If my kid in grade 12 cannot graduate this year because the entire province goes on a general strike to protest this particular use of the notwithstanding clause then so be it.
Standing up to demand a government that will give greater respect to the concept of constitutionally protected rights and freedoms will be upsetting and take a measure of sacrifice from many...but I sure hope my kid is already the type of person who is willing to take such a speedbump in life to stand up against this form of unjust government overreach.
If we are really honest, this might be the one and only moment in a lifetime that a great many people will have the opportunity to stand up for something truly foundational to their free and democratic society. And as Remembrance Day is right around the corner, if teenagers and adults alike used to be able to traverse an ocean to take a post in a trench and literally put their lives on the line, the least any of us can do is risk some time and income to join a protest or help advance a recall petition or help fund a political party that will not do this to its citizens.
This teacher situation has now entered the phase where it is about a lot more than teachers or students or even the education system. It is impossible to comprehend how people who fashion themselves to be libertarians and supporters of a free and independent Alberta are also double-fisted cheering on a draconian government stomping on the throats of its citizens. I get that they think its funny because it is not currently their throats, it just remains baffling to me they cannot see why this is really bad and they should be standing up for the rights and freedoms of the teachers regardless of their political views.
If Albertan's stay silent and just let this one go, there will be the obvious and predicted further erosion of public schooling, but for those of you who seem to think that does not matter to you, I assure you there will also be more of this type of conduct to follow and it will get progressively worse and eventually apply to you or someone you love in a way you will hate. It is a giant step towards a grasp for absolute power and the absolute corruption that it begets. The people will either demand a reversal of course now or provide the permission structure for all future overreach.
At a bare minimum anyone who cares about this should be in the next 24 hours sending emails to your MLA and I would suggest at least all current Cabinet Ministers as well.
I wish I was just being dramatic. But this is happening while at the same time the Supreme Court of Canada is considering a reference case as to the legality of this type of preemptive use of the notwithstanding clause and Alberta will very likely be having a separatism referendum one way or another in the next year. Premier Smith and her government are purposefully provoking a constitutional crisis with this move. Whether you like it or not, this is a crisis you will have to deal with as a Canadian citizen and voter in the short-term. The time to be blissfully ignorant and comfortably on the sidelines has long passed.
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For sure there are problems in the classroom and our school system and yes I am late to the party. I am open to be corrected that's why I posted here looking for some feedback on why my view is wrong. The cost of living argument is not something I care for. I don't know how many industries have gone ahead and matched all the market changes. Additionally, I haven't seen enough to say that quality of education hasn't dropped in response to market conditions.
I do believe in the public education system and no I am not a teacher. I am looking for discussion on how we could have avoided the strike. I am not seeing that a deal wanted to be reached.
Ok I see the timing of my post might not be great given what the other side just did. I guess I should have posted that 3 weeks ago. Oh well, what is negotiating in good faith? Basically give the teachers what they need to do their jobs or they will shut the whole system down? Sounds more and more like both sides don't want a deal. We all know what the UCP is but I expected more from the educated folks.
Negotiating in good faith essentially boils down to not having a predetermined outcome in your back pocket. Making one offer and not moving from that or barely moving from that is questionable at best. Especially when the party doing so has the ability to legislate them back to work and force an outcome.
Negotiating in good faith essentially boils down to not having a predetermined outcome in your back pocket. Making one offer and not moving from that or barely moving from that is questionable at best. Especially when the party doing so has the ability to legislate them back to work and force an outcome.
How can bad faith be a surprise, her stated intention with the separatist flirtations, is that she would like more opportunity to negotiate with canada. I'm not sure if it's true and I'm not sure if it's better than her behind an actual separatist.
Ok I see the timing of my post might not be great given what the other side just did. I guess I should have posted that 3 weeks ago. Oh well, what is negotiating in good faith? Basically give the teachers what they need to do their jobs or they will shut the whole system down? Sounds more and more like both sides don't want a deal. We all know what the UCP is but I expected more from the educated folks.
We (the teachers) have repeatedly said we need something to help us with class size and complexity. Generally I wasn’t even looking for a cap to recommended conditions by the Alberta’s Commission of Learning in 2003. I would’ve been okay with PLANS towards classroom size caps. Here’s the facts:
- 12% wage increase over 4 years and 3000 new teachers
- hiring more teachers is not a CBA item, there’s already a funding formula to address enrollment growth. And with over 1500 public schools in Alberta and over 15,000 increase in projected enrollment per year, 3000 teachers won’t even meet enrollment growth
- so teachers rejected the deal. We asked for something concrete the address class size and complexity
- the government offered literally the exact same deal plus a COVID shot just before the strike. So teachers strike
- Danielle said we cannot put class size caps because there aren’t enough schools. So the union offered a phased plan on classroom size caps in 4 years time to give the government time to develop the appropriate infrastructure. Even with this offer, Alberta would STILL be the lowest funded in all of Canada. This is called good faith bargaining. The government rejects, calling it “asking for the moon” but doesn’t come back to the table with a counteroffer.
- the government offered “enhanced mediation” under the stipulation that we return to work on Sept 20. The catch was that the mediator would be barred from talking about classroom size and complexity, so the union rejected. This is called bad faith bargaining.
- Danielle Smith was quoted saying that there should be an EA attached to “moderately complex” classrooms of 3-4 English as Additional Language Learners. By that metric, every public classroom would have 1-6 EA’s. This shows that she’s so completely out of touch with the realities of teaching and have not even listened to what it’s like teaching in a public classroom.
So in summary, as many other have alluded, the government has literally not budged on its original position, and waited a month while depriving teachers of their salary all the while intended to use the notwithstanding clause to force us back to work. This is not a two sides issue, it is purely the government acting in BAD FAITH.
I lost about 8 months worth of savings only to get my constitutional right stripped. It was completely unnecessary if they were just going ram this deal through anyway.
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Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751
The Oilers won't finish 14th in the West forever.
Eventually a couple of expansion teams will be added which will nestle the Oilers into 16th.
Last edited by Point Blank; 10-27-2025 at 10:21 PM.
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How long will it take to build the schools we need that the teachers are asking for? I don't think it's 4 years. Also how is not giving you what you asked for negotiating in bad faith? Seems like they aren't just rolling over in negotiations. I can't wait for my kid to pull this on me.
Sure the government is ridiculous in their response and they haven't budged. I feel like we let the adults be adults in negotiations and we have a strike instead.
For sure there are problems in the classroom and our school system and yes I am late to the party. I am open to be corrected that's why I posted here looking for some feedback on why my view is wrong. The cost of living argument is not something I care for. I don't know how many industries have gone ahead and matched all the market changes. Additionally, I haven't seen enough to say that quality of education hasn't dropped in response to market conditions.
I do believe in the public education system and no I am not a teacher. I am looking for discussion on how we could have avoided the strike. I am not seeing that a deal wanted to be reached.
Instead of starting from nothing and expecting us to reset the conversation and bring you up to speed, you should go back and read this thread and the Alberta Politics thread. Both threads have been discussing this topic extensively for months and the answers you seek are already captured by many of the contributors on this board.
TLDR: The only way the strike could have been avoided is if the UCP allowed for negotiations around class sizes and complexity and the UCP flat out refused to discuss those issues. They intentionally wasted a year of time and refused to change their offer (aside from adding a free covid shot). This was planned as they wanted to get to this point as their goal is to destroy public education.
Get mad at the UCP and get active with pushing back on them.
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Ok I see the timing of my post might not be great given what the other side just did. I guess I should have posted that 3 weeks ago. Oh well, what is negotiating in good faith? Basically give the teachers what they need to do their jobs or they will shut the whole system down? Sounds more and more like both sides don't want a deal. We all know what the UCP is but I expected more from the educated folks.
How long will it take to build the schools we need that the teachers are asking for? I don't think it's 4 years. Also how is not giving you what you asked for negotiating in bad faith? Seems like they aren't just rolling over in negotiations. I can't wait for my kid to pull this on me.
Sure the government is ridiculous in their response and they haven't budged. I feel like we let the adults be adults in negotiations and we have a strike instead.
It’s not a matter of giving us what we want. It’s the fact that the government never had intentions to listen to what we wanted and every intention to go nuclear on the deal.
It’s like if your kid asked you for a car, and instead of actually talking about it, you told them you’d “think about it,” made them wait for months, then came back saying you’d only ever planned to buy them a bus pass just so you could say you tried to negotiate.
They pulled #### like offering “enhanced mediation” and prolonging the dispute to clearly give the public an illusion that they were open to discussing terms when all along they never did.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751
The Oilers won't finish 14th in the West forever.
Eventually a couple of expansion teams will be added which will nestle the Oilers into 16th.
For sure there are problems in the classroom and our school system and yes I am late to the party. I am open to be corrected that's why I posted here looking for some feedback on why my view is wrong. The cost of living argument is not something I care for. I don't know how many industries have gone ahead and matched all the market changes. Additionally, I haven't seen enough to say that quality of education hasn't dropped in response to market conditions. I do believe in the public education system and no I am not a teacher. I am looking for discussion on how we could have avoided the strike. I am not seeing that a deal wanted to be reached.
Ok, I will give it a go...
You are really missing the bad faith aspect to this in my opinion.
When defence lawyers had finally had enough and took our very public stand and withdrew services it was after at least a full decade of our willingness to prop up a public service being abused by the conduct of government.
Our straw that broke the camel's back moment came very shortly after the Crown prosecutors and Provincial Court Judges. Sheriffs and Court Clerks have had it even worse and their ranks have been decimated as a result.
The government on behalf of the taxpayers as a whole are the ones responsible for running a functioning public service. It is not on the service provider to pay out of pocket themselves because they are people who care to try and not watch individuals they take care of get screwed by purposeful systematic underfunding.
Teachers have been disrespected and abused with the conditions they have been put through in similar fashion to what we faced. That they are finally taking a stand is at least a decade in the making. Just like it was for us.
Our situation was different because we are not unionized and we are not publicly paid employees. So we ironically had a much easier time of just walking away from the work and there was nothing they could do about it. But it absolutely took that - and serious criminal cases being placed in jeopardy - before the UCP government would even attempt to bargain in good faith.
They ran around disparaging us for the massive 'raise' we were demanding while ignoring how far below other provinces our legal aid rates were and how long it had been since we had received any increases and how low the per person funding had dropped by pretending like there was no such thing as inflation in the last 20 years. Sound familiar?
In the case of Crown prosecutors, some of them I know received a 25% raise overnight after enduring 7-8 years of complete wage and benefit freezes. They were going to quit and leave to other provinces. It was not rhetoric. Was their 25% raise a reflection of how greedy they were, or rather proof of how badly the government had been getting away with abusing them for their services? Easy to say us defence lawyers were just greedy, but a little more difficult to paint prosecutors with the same brush no?
It is the UCP government modus operandi at this point. Refuse fair terms or compensation for as long as possible putting individual human beings to the breaking point, publicly attack them when they finally say they cannot take it anymore, and then ride the populism wave of individuals who enter the chat late to the party and act like the workers in the current round of abusive negotiations are obviously the problem and not the government (who somehow has been the only constant in all said negotiations)...because something something unions are bad and I have my own bootstraps so why don't they just use theirs?
How to avoid the strike? Completely and painfully simple. Stop following the above abusive relationship pattern with publicly funded systems and the workers that are necessary to make them function for the taxpayers. Be respectful, don't lie about them in public, and don't pretend like you cannot afford to pay them when you are 'saving' billions for a rainy day, and also borrowing billions for annual operations, and simultaneously tossing hundreds of millions out the window on vanity projects made-up nonsensical legislation or sole-sourced contracts to people that seem to somehow have an inside track and never have to fight to be paid.
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