October 6 - So it Begins - The Alberta Teacher Strike

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Funding private schools is nothing more than a misguided, ideologically driven "fund the rich" concept that comes out of most conservative governments as a way to create a tiered 'have' and 'have-not' system so that only the 'right people' can get a good education and the 'wrong people' can get left behind.

Not only does Alberta fund private schools more than any other province in Canada, Alberta also gives grants and one-off funding to private schools that are not tracked within the same budget line items making it harder to keep up with the degree in which private schools are syphoning off public money.

On top of that, Alberta is also the ONLY province to fund charter schools and is one of 3 provinces (and two territories) to still fully fund catholic schools.

That is a lot of ways that Alberta is taking money away from public education, which was forgivable when the government funded the public system much better and helped drive it to be one of the best public systems in the world. Now that the UCP is attacking the public education system it is time to rethink all of these methods of undermining public education. Personally, I think I would defund charter and catholic school before private but I do think reducing or eliminating private school funding with public dollars is the right move.

In the end though, the UCP is forcing this conflict and the petition to defund private schools is very clearly about fighting a corrupt government than "eating the rich" but if you want to misunderstand the situation and take it personally then that's your prerogative.

Catholic schools, apart from a single private school, are public schools. They are funded the same way. They take kids with all the needs. If schools have space, they cannot turn any students away. By and large, Catholic schools have operated better in fiscal terms than their public counterparts.

Public Catholic schools are not part of the problem here. They are not draining resources away from other public schools.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by woob

If you're going to go with an angle of being punitive to kids who can't help what they were born with, I'm going to guess there's a far greater amount of kids who can't help what they were born with in the public system. But you're asking us to have empathy for a family that has the means to address this education challenge with their child? Rather than having empathy for ALL children/teachers within the public system who do and do not have education challenges.

Well we're saying we want to be able to help ALL childrean with education/language/etc. problems within the PUBLIC system. So if that means we tell all private schools you have to find your own funding now (even if it only makes up a 6.2% gain in funding), I'm fine with that.

Yes, it may be misguided, but this is kind of a we will take whatever we can get situation at this point, due to the years of mismanagement.

I think there's plenty of other places you could go for that money before you take it away from the education of a moderate income kid with dyslexia.

Personally I'd suggest a PST and less insane handouts to coal companies as good places to start.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I think there's plenty of other places you could go for that money before you take it away from the education of a moderate income kid with dyslexia.

Personally I'd suggest a PST and less insane handouts to coal companies as good places to start.

#### that crap.
If Alberta taxed corporations what they used to/what they should be, you wouldn't have to suggest a tax that hits poor people the hardest.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

#### that crap.
If Alberta taxed corporations what they used to/what they should be, you wouldn't have to suggest a tax that hits poor people the hardest.

Another great choice that I would rank higher on my list of funding alternatives.

[Two Fivenagame]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

Catholic schools, apart from a single private school, are public schools. They are funded the same way. They take kids with all the needs. If schools have space, they cannot turn any students away. By and large, Catholic schools have operated better in fiscal terms than their public counterparts.

Public Catholic schools are not part of the problem here. They are not draining resources away from other public schools.

For me, it's the awkward acceptance that belief in grumpkins and snarks has any place next to education, unless the subject is about ALL religions and their histories.

If parents want to indoctrinate their children, please make use of the millions of churches around the city that are open once a week and don't pay taxes.

There's something truely messed up about kids spending their learning time creating works of art that announces their love of God. I had to walk through a Catholic school the other day and the hallways were awash with posters created by 8 year olds depicting their relationship with God. It makes me sick that this cult receives ANY measure of public funding.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

Catholic schools, apart from a single private school, are public schools. They are funded the same way. They take kids with all the needs. If schools have space, they cannot turn any students away. By and large, Catholic schools have operated better in fiscal terms than their public counterparts.

Public Catholic schools are not part of the problem here. They are not draining resources away from other public schools.

There is no need to mix a single religion with our school systems. It is a throwback to an old era and as other provinces have already moved to phase out funding religious schools, Alberta should keep up with the times and do the same.

Religion is something one should do at home and at their place of worship. Not in schools or government.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Wolven

There is no need to mix a single religion with our school systems. It is a throwback to an old era and as other provinces have already moved to phase out funding religious schools, Alberta should keep up with the times and do the same.

Religion is something one should do at home and at their place of worship. Not in schools or government.

Ugh...I agree...but I feel like a broken record.

It was part of the deal re: Confederation. It ain't going anywhere. Let it go. Get over it. Focus on what can be realistically controlled.

The real question you and all the 'anti-Catholic school board' people should be asking is:

"Why is an organization associated with one of the most inept and incompetent organizations the World has ever known better run than the Public Education system?"

I side with the Teachers, but lets not pretend that their Administration plays no part in where they are now.

[Two Fivenagame]

Originally Posted by Locke

Ugh...I agree...but I feel like a broken record.

It was part of the deal re: Confederation. It ain't going anywhere. Let it go. Get over it. Focus on what can be realistically controlled.

The real question you and all the 'anti-Catholic school board' people should be asking is:

"Why is an organization associated with one of the most inept and incompetent organizations the World has ever known better run than the Public Education system?"

I side with the Teachers, but lets not pretend that their Administration plays no part in where they are now.

Quebec stopped funding religious schools back in 98. There can't be any other province more deeply entrenched in the church than Quebec. Throw a dart anywhere on a map of Quebec and you hit something named after a saint 9/10 times.

You know like aaaaah say what 'ou will habout da quebeccer, day did ha good ting for da da province back den

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by Wolven

There is no need to mix a single religion with our school systems. It is a throwback to an old era and as other provinces have already moved to phase out funding religious schools, Alberta should keep up with the times and do the same.

Religion is something one should do at home and at their place of worship. Not in schools or government.

So should the non-catholic public districts be expected to somehow absorb all of these catholic schools, along with their students and staff, or should the catholic school districts just be cut off from all public funding and attempt to independently fund themselves through fees? The first would be an absolute logistical and legal nightmare that would take an era to figure out, and the second would without question lead to a massive migration of students from catholic to conventional public- which the province currently has no space for.

There are something like 175K students in the Catholic system in Alberta, meaning it is simply too big to realistically do anything about.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

Quebec stopped funding religious schools back in 98. There can't be any other province more deeply entrenched in the church than Quebec. Throw a dart anywhere on a map of Quebec and you hit something named after a saint 9/10 times.

You know like aaaaah say what 'ou will habout da quebeccer, day did ha good ting for da da province back den

That doesnt matter. It was a condition of Alberta's acceptance of Confederation. Did Quebec stipulate that when they signed? I dont know. Did they have more 'wiggle room?' I dont know.

And, quite frankly...at the moment? People should be clamoring to shutter the Public school board and let the CCSB take over the whole thing as opposed to the other way around.

Yeah, I dont think Religion belongs in schools or Government either, but one board more or less has their poop in a group and the other? Well...here we are.

Thats where we're at right now.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

#### that crap.
If Alberta taxed corporations what they used to/what they should be, you wouldn't have to suggest a tax that hits poor people the hardest.

Small business owner here and I couldn't agree more. When UCP dropped it from 6% to 5% we went from the lowest provincial tax rate to even lower. It's so dumb. And then you get greedy/ignorant business owners complaining that their taxes are too high. You only pay taxes on profits, though. If you're already struggling or losing money you don't pay tax, anyway.

We should absolutely be taxed more.

[fotze2]

All you people just need to fata yourself and just give me money.

Every debate ever.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Locke

Ugh...I agree...but I feel like a broken record.

It was part of the deal re: Confederation. It ain't going anywhere. Let it go. Get over it. Focus on what can be realistically controlled.

The real question you and all the 'anti-Catholic school board' people should be asking is:

"Why is an organization associated with one of the most inept and incompetent organizations the World has ever known better run than the Public Education system?"

I side with the Teachers, but lets not pretend that their Administration plays no part in where they are now.

As a man with no children, i could be wrong here, but does it have something to do with public education reach vs. catholic school.

I grew up in a small town (15-20 graduates a year) that was 20km away from a bigger town (150-200 graduates in public/catholic HS's).

My town had a public k-12 system over two schools (1-6 and 9-12). The Catholic system in my town went from K-9 then were bussed to the bigger town for HS.

It seems to me, by cursory review, that most small towns have a great concentration of public schools vs catholic schools.

I don't know if there is anything in provincial mandates or regulations that require k-12 to be a closer distance to kids vs catholic?

This would certainly add alot to overhead, administration etc.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

Catholic schools, apart from a single private school, are public schools. They are funded the same way. They take kids with all the needs. If schools have space, they cannot turn any students away. By and large, Catholic schools have operated better in fiscal terms than their public counterparts.

Public Catholic schools are not part of the problem here. They are not draining resources away from other public schools.

I'm going to accept a portion of your premise, but ask for 1 modification. A general public school should exist and any catchment area before a catholic school or any alternative school is there.

Specifically in the area I live in, I don't know how funding was applied between the province or the school boards, but it complete unacceptable that Notre Dame predates Northern Trials by 15 years. That the Catholic junior high is 10 years older than the public one, that there are 2 catholic elementaries in my area, while the 1 public elementary is full and busing kids out.

I know several people who have no love of Catholicism and ship their kids to those schools, simply because of convenience. I personally do think there is a place for alternative programs in schooling, and I am almost leaning closer to the idea that the CBE should be relieved from management of alternative programs, providing greater focus on the general programs, and referring others to the programs as desired without the burden of focusing too much energy away from their core offering. It would probably be internal inconsistent of me to say language, science, arts, gifts, and sports programs are OK, but I draw the line as specific cultural programs which are still meeting basic education standards. So rather than railing on about how terrible religion is, I'll just say it is wrong of the province to have build catholic schools first regardless of whatever "fair" funding doctrine they used to justify it

[The Fisher Account]

UCP used the notwithstanding clause. Classes to resume Wednesday.

ATA yet to respond publicly. More details:

https://www.play1037.ca/2025/10/27/c...-back-to-work/

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

For me, it's the awkward acceptance that belief in grumpkins and snarks has any place next to education, unless the subject is about ALL religions and their histories.

If parents want to indoctrinate their children, please make use of the millions of churches around the city that are open once a week and don't pay taxes.

There's something truely messed up about kids spending their learning time creating works of art that announces their love of God. I had to walk through a Catholic school the other day and the hallways were awash with posters created by 8 year olds depicting their relationship with God. It makes me sick that this cult receives ANY measure of public funding.

If children's artwork of all things bothers you I don't think you should be allowed out in public. Get a grip.

[Two Fivenagame]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

UCP used the notwithstanding clause. Classes to resume Wednesday.

ATA yet to respond publicly. More details:

https://www.play1037.ca/2025/10/27/c...-back-to-work/

So... teachers back tomorrow?


This will be a thrilling week for everyone involved.

[WideReceiver]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

UCP used the notwithstanding clause. Classes to resume Wednesday.

ATA yet to respond publicly. More details:

https://www.play1037.ca/2025/10/27/c...-back-to-work/

Oh oh

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Wolven

In the end though, the UCP is forcing this conflict and the petition to defund private schools is very clearly about fighting a corrupt government than "eating the rich" but if you want to misunderstand the situation and take it personally then that's your prerogative.

I understand the situation perfectly. All four of my son's grandparents are/were teachers (and a bunch of other relatives, too). I also understand that if the petition were to be successfully implemented as written, my son's school would close and he would be unable to attend any school at all. There is simply zero chance a public school would be able to accommodate him and create a safe space for him (but I really hope some day that will change). In the long run, his already high chances of suicide would become much much higher. So yes, I'm absolutely going to take this personally.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by woob

If you're going to go with an angle of being punitive to kids who can't help what they were born with, I'm going to guess there's a far greater amount of kids who can't help what they were born with in the public system. But you're asking us to have empathy for a family that has the means to address this education challenge with their child? Rather than having empathy for ALL children/teachers within the public system who do and do not have education challenges.

Well we're saying we want to be able to help ALL childrean with education/language/etc. problems within the PUBLIC system. So if that means we tell all private schools you have to find your own funding now (even if it only makes up a 6.2% gain in funding), I'm fine with that.

Yes, it may be misguided, but this is kind of a we will take whatever we can get situation at this point, due to the years of mismanagement.

How about we just help the long list of the children currently struggling within the public system instead of making that list even longer?