October 6 - So it Begins - The Alberta Teacher Strike

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Funding private schools takes money away from funding for public schools. If private schools can operate profitably without public assistance and produce good results on their own then great. If they can’t then there is no reason to be using tax dollars to fund them.

-Anything the government funds, that is not a public school, takes away from public school funding.

-Independent schools in Alberta must be not for profit, if they take any government funding.

-About 40% of the funding is for schools that are early childhood programs (for children with complex learning needs).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTIjlkiKabI&t=3364s

Discussion starts about 42 minutes in.

[Point Blank]

Canvassers have been distributing lawn signs and collecting signatures for the recall and defunding private school petitions at the PetroCanada near Cougar Ridge in Calgary-Bow. It seems to have been quite busy and my neighborhood now has tons of lawn signs for public education.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Gil McGowan, President of the Alberta Federation of Labour:

Oh man. Good job, Gil!

I think Smith and the UCP are tone deaf enough that they are going to push ahead and use the Notwithstanding Clause. Smith has had a hard-on to flex this authoritarian power since she got into the big seat.

If this leads to a general strike, that would be the biggest failure of a Canadian government in the last half-century. I wonder if that would be enough to fracture the UCP. You would have to think that a number of those backbenchers would start feeling the heat and seeing that their political careers are not going to survive this stunt.

If we can recall sticky nicky at the same time then that would be epic.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

Canvassers have been distributing lawn signs and collecting signatures for the recall and defunding private school petitions at the PetroCanada near Cougar Ridge in Calgary-Bow. It seems to have been quite busy and my neighborhood now has tons of lawn signs for public education.

That is awesome.

I want to help out with the recall effort but being outside of the riding I am not sure how I can chip in. I was thinking I should help someone in the riding set up a table at Pie Junkie. I'll bring the table and chairs if they bring their... self!

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

I don't think they'll leave anything to chance with arbitration. I think they'll impose a contract "for stability".

That’d almost certainly be overturned in court.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

-Anything the government funds, that is not a public school, takes away from public school funding.

-Independent schools in Alberta must be not for profit, if they take any government funding.

-About 40% of the funding is for schools that are early childhood programs (for children with complex learning needs).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTIjlkiKabI&t=3364s

Discussion starts about 42 minutes in.

Ok, so why does a private school need public funding?

[bettercallbettman]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1982077079694037458




UCP homers will reach for anything!

[fotze2]

UCP rulezzz!!!!

[puffnstuff]

Busboobs Deputy chief of staff has some thoughts...quite delusional but he had them, oh and lies, his thoughts are lies too.

https://bsky.app/profile/thebreakdow.../3m44tadssqs2a

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Ok, so why does a private school need public funding?

Because it takes a lot of money to run a special needs school, and unfortunately DSEPs fall under this same broad category (and there's no reason to expect this completely unreasonable government to make any kind of reasonable distinction here).

Some degree of public funding legitimizes the oversight and regulation that independent schools must follow. Can you take away all of the funding and maintain the same degree of regulatory control? Maybe in theory, but I'm skeptical in practice. (not that this in itself is a particularly strong argument, but I think there is a can of worms here)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Because it takes a lot of money to run a special needs school, and unfortunately DSEPs fall under this same broad category (and there's no reason to expect this completely unreasonable government to make any kind of reasonable distinction here).

Some degree of public funding legitimizes the oversight and regulation that independent schools must follow. Can you take away all of the funding and maintain the same degree of regulatory control? Maybe in theory, but I'm skeptical in practice. (not that this in itself is a particularly strong argument, but I think there is a can of worms here)

Of course you can enforce regulatory control. Schools still have to be accredited and licenced. And most private schools have little to nothing to do with special needs.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Ok, so why does a private school need public funding?

Mostly for practical reasons. Private schools are educating nearly 50k kids in Alberta, and the government spends about $190MM less in operating grants than it would if those kids were all in public school, and doesn't provide the buildings or infrastructure for them either.

And there are plenty of needs the public boards do a generally poor job at meeting, and kids who would be significantly disadvantaged by that change. Take Janus aacademy - small class sizes and specialized educational supports for kids with autism.

I suppose we as a society could decide that instead of funding those kids at 70% of the funding every other child gets that they're worth $0 in funding. Of course, we can expect some of the parents won't be able to afford that anymore, and their kids will be back at CBE in a regular classroom. That'll cost the system an extra $4000 but at least those kids will get less specialized supports - I'm sure that won't have any negative downstream effects.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Because it takes a lot of money to run a special needs school, and unfortunately DSEPs fall under this same broad category (and there's no reason to expect this completely unreasonable government to make any kind of reasonable distinction here).

Some degree of public funding legitimizes the oversight and regulation that independent schools must follow. Can you take away all of the funding and maintain the same degree of regulatory control? Maybe in theory, but I'm skeptical in practice. (not that this in itself is a particularly strong argument, but I think there is a can of worms here)

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Mostly for practical reasons. Private schools are educating nearly 50k kids in Alberta, and the government spends about $190MM less in operating grants than it would if those kids were all in public school, and doesn't provide the buildings or infrastructure for them either.

And there are plenty of needs the public boards do a generally poor job at meeting, and kids who would be significantly disadvantaged by that change. Take Janus aacademy - small class sizes and specialized educational supports for kids with autism.

I suppose we as a society could decide that instead of funding those kids at 70% of the funding every other child gets that they're worth $0 in funding. Of course, we can expect some of the parents won't be able to afford that anymore, and their kids will be back at CBE in a regular classroom. That'll cost the system an extra $4000 but at least those kids will get less specialized supports - I'm sure that won't have any negative downstream effects.

You guys realize all of the special needs kids whose parents can’t afford private school still go to public school right?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

You guys realize all of the special needs kids whose parents can’t afford private school still go to public school right?

Yep. And I firmly believe as a society we should be funding education to a level that the public system can so a good job with special needs students. We are currently not even close to those levels, and taking the money from independent schools is the stupidest place to get it.

There are lots of parents with special needs kids who are scrimping and saving to get their special needs kid the help they require. For tons of those families an extra $7k per year isn't going to work. Those kids will be back at cbe. They'll get less support and it'll cost the government more.

But think of how ideologically pure it'll be around here.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Yep. And I firmly believe as a society we should be funding education to a level that the public system can so a good job with special needs students. We are currently not even close to those levels, and taking the money from independent schools is the stupidest place to get it.

Actually, most would agree that taking the money away from private / charter / religious schools is the smartest way to streamline public education and properly fund and run it. That action by itself takes the leeches off of the public education system and forces those streams of education to stand on their own financially or crumble into dust because they only survived by taking a disproportionate amount of public funding to educate a small number of students.

More importantly, defunding the private schools is a massive political win because it cuts the legs out of the UCP who are clearly trying to destroy public education in order to create more and more private education (private & charter). Stopping their agenda is critical to saving the public education system and if we can democratically force them to defund private education then that will create a massive problem for them as they would either need to ignore the will of the people they are meant to represent or give up their plot to destroy public education. I am pretty sure they would choose the former over the latter.

As mentioned above by GioforPM, I wouldn't worry about regulating the private schools after defunding them. Just like private liquor stores or bars and pubs, if a government regulates them and they break the rules then said government shuts them down. It is a very serious function of governments and if private schools decide they'd like to FAFO then I expect a number of them would be heavily fined and/or disbanded to set expectations with the rest of them.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Yep. And I firmly believe as a society we should be funding education to a level that the public system can so a good job with special needs students. We are currently not even close to those levels, and taking the money from independent schools is the stupidest place to get it.

There are lots of parents with special needs kids who are scrimping and saving to get their special needs kid the help they require. For tons of those families an extra $7k per year isn't going to work. Those kids will be back at cbe. They'll get less support and it'll cost the government more.

But think of how ideologically pure it'll be around here.

Maybe, just maybe, those parents can put pressure on the government to properly fund the public system. Or they can, gasp, vote for a party that will.

[burn_this_city]

If every school gets the same amount per kid, I don't see how pulling private and charter funding changes public education.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

If every school gets the same amount per kid, I don't see how pulling private and charter funding changes public education.

The amount per kid needs to go up.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

The amount per kid needs to go up.

True as hell. Private exists because people believe that to be true.

My kid would be fataed in public.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

If every school gets the same amount per kid, I don't see how pulling private and charter funding changes public education.

Private and charter in general teach kids with lower needs from more wealthy demographics. These kids cost less to educate.