October 6 - So it Begins - The Alberta Teacher Strike

[IliketoPuck]

Even if they did that, they wouldn't control the outcome of the pay increases. For this government, control is everything. They won't go down a route that relinquishes that in my opinion.

[malcolmk14]

I don't see them leaving anything to chance. They will impose a contract or direct an arbitrator to stay within certain guidelines.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by CFO

Using kids - they don't know any better.

Teachers time to go back to work.

You were the kid that had their tests handed back face down, weren't you?

[sa226]

Im not well versed on teacher vs government labour relations, but an arbitrator is an independent 3rd party that both sides have to agree to using.

If the government successfully imposes conditions on arbitration, that arbitrator would never work again because what labour group would agree to using them. Their professional integrity would be ruined.

From an outside perspective with experience in messy contract negotiations, binding arbitration is the only not completely terrible way out of this for both sides. Its still far from ideal, but its better than having a terrible agreement forced upon you.

[fotze2]

Doctors use their patients for their own financial gain. Pieces of crap. Don't even get me started on cancer researchers.

[The Big Chill]

I don’t imagine the government would want to do binding arbitration. Arbitration would likely just compare to what other provinces have, and that’s pretty much all teachers are asking for.

[IliketoPuck]

That's my thought on it. They won't agree to something that renders the decision outside their control.

[simmer2]

Originally Posted by fotze2

Doctors use their patients for their own financial gain. Pieces of crap. Don't even get me started on cancer researchers.

Lol what about cancer researchers? Must be terrible ppl haha.

[Point Blank]

Side note: A reminder that the PAT results from the 2024-25 school year has still not been published. This is an indicator of the students’ learning of the new curriculum that the UCP rammed through with very little piloting.

From what I had heard anecdotally, the average was hovering at around 30% for math.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

Side note: A reminder that the PAT results from the 2024-25 school year has still not been published. This is an indicator of the students’ learning of the new curriculum that the UCP rammed through with very little piloting.

From what I had heard anecdotally, the average was hovering at around 30% for math.

Yikes.

[fotze2]

What are PAT results?

What did they change about math?

[PaperBagger'14]

Tinfoil hat hypothetical time:

Let’s say teachers are forced into binding arbitration by the government, even though this opens up the possibility of class size caps and complexity being included in the new CBA.

Could the government then invoke the notwithstanding clause, void the binding arbitrators decision and ram through their own agreement if it includes language the government does not want?

Why would the government do this? It gives them the chance to save some face IF the arbitrator does not include classroom size caps / complexity (aka the arbitrator gives the govt what they want). They hedge their bet by having the notwithstanding clause in their back pocket, which will get major blowback if they use it at any time. By saving the notwithstanding clause to force a deal though until later in this process gives them more time for a “less negative” outcome.

[IliketoPuck]

The government can do one of two things.

1. Legislate the teachers back to work and force arbitration.

2. Legislate the teachers back to work using the notwithstanding clause.

My understanding is that doing the latter would be the first time the notwithstanding clause has been used to limit constitutionally protected collective bargaining rights.

[fotze2]

What if some don't go back to work? They go to jail?

Do teachers get benefits during this strike?

[woob]

They'd be idiots to use the Notwithstanding Clause, as that would send a message to all other unions that they'd rather use that than negotiate in good faith.

But the UCP are a bunch of idiots, so I would not be suprised.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by sa226

Im not well versed on teacher vs government labour relations, but an arbitrator is an independent 3rd party that both sides have to agree to using.

If the government successfully imposes conditions on arbitration, that arbitrator would never work again because what labour group would agree to using them. Their professional integrity would be ruined.

From an outside perspective with experience in messy contract negotiations, binding arbitration is the only not completely terrible way out of this for both sides. Its still far from ideal, but its better than having a terrible agreement forced upon you.

The last bit there kills me. A "terrible" outcome for the UCP is a well funded and healthy public education system that addresses teacher's salaries, reasonable class sizes, and manageable class complexity.

Everyone should think on that.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by fotze2

What if some don't go back to work? They go to jail?

Do teachers get benefits during this strike?

Fines are steep. $1000 a day for teachers, $10,000 for union leaders, $100,000 for the ATA. Or something like that.

The ATA is paying our benefits during the strike. The government instructed school boards not to cover benefit premiums this time (they did in 2002 and 2007).

[malcolmk14]

Here is likely what is coming

https://montrealgazette.com/news/que...w-salary-fines

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by fotze2

What are PAT results?

What did they change about math?

PATs are provincial achievement tests. It’s a province wide standardized assessment students write in Grade 6 and 9 as a metric to see how the province and schools are doing.

One of the first things the UCP did (besides ending classroom size reporting) was scrapping a new curriculum draft that was launched by the PC government and piloted extensively by the NDP. Anecdotally, teachers who implemented this curriculum had good things to say about it.

The UCP decided to label this curriculum NDP agenda driven, so they scrapped it and made an entirely new curriculum in only a couple of months and did very little piloting. The new curriculum is incredibly dense and most teachers say it’s not developmentally appropriate.

For math, they essentially moved all the content they learn 2 years backwards, so for example, in Grade 6, they are now learning how to multiply and divide fractions which is a Grade 8 concept. It implies that they only want students to develop rote procedure skills (the ability to follow memorized steps to solve a problem; such as “multiply the numerator and then the denominator and write the answer down”) instead of conceptual understanding (such as what a fraction actually communicates, what is its connection to percentages/decimals, etc).

The dense curriculum and difficulty of math concepts students now have to learn is likely a contributor to the most recent Grade 6 PAT results which anecdotally are at around 30%. Every year in early October, Alberta education releases the results from the previous school year, but if you try looking up the 2024-25 results, you’ll see that nothing has been published.

This is a big factor in the strike that’s not talked about because typically, elementary teachers are very reluctant to strike. However, they’ve been hit the hardest with class sizes, complexity, and an impossible curriculum. Research shows that teacher self efficacy is a major contributing factor to student achievement, and morale in elementary schools are absolutely awful right now.

Alberta has historically been a very strong internationally based on PISA (programs for international student assessment) results; isolating for Alberta from the rest of Canada, we ranked 2nd in the world for science and literacy, and 7th in math. In 4 years time when these elementary students hit high schools, I wouldn’t be surprised if we see these results dip.

Another indicator of how things are going is that the Northwest Territories used to adopt Alberta’s curriculum because of the strength of our results. Since the new curriculum rolled out, NWT has dumped it in favor of BC’s curriculum.

[flamingreen]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

PATs are provincial achievement tests. It’s a province wide standardized assessment students write in Grade 6 and 9 as a metric to see how the provinces and schools are doing.

One of the first things the UCP did (besides ending classroom size reporting) was scrapping a new curriculum draft that was launched by the PC government and piloted extensively by the NDP. Anecdotally, teachers who implemented this curriculum had good things to say about it.

The UCP decided to label this curriculum NDP agenda driven, so they scrapped it and made an entirely new curriculum in only a couple of months and did very little piloting. The new curriculum is incredibly dense and most teachers say it’s not developmentally appropriate.

For math, they essentially moved all the content they learn 2 years backwards, so for example, in Grade 6, they are now learning how to multiply and divide fractions which is a Grade 8 concept. It implies that they only want students to develop procedural fluency (the ability to follow steps to solve a problem; such as “multiply the numerator and then the denominator and write the answer down”) instead of conceptual understanding (such as what a fraction actually communicates, what is its connection to percentages/decimals, etc).

The dense curriculum and difficulty of math concepts students now have to learn is likely a contributor to the most recent Grade 6 PAT results which anecdotally are at around 30%. Every year in early October, Alberta education releases the results from the previous school year, but if you try looking up the 2024-25 results, you’ll see that nothing has been published.

This is a big factor in the strike that’s not talked about because typically, elementary teachers are very reluctant to strike. However, they’ve been hit the hardest with class sizes, complexity, and an impossible curriculum. Research shows that teacher self efficacy is a major contributing factor to student achievement, and morale in elementary schools are absolutely awful right now.

Alberta has historically been a very strong internationally based on PISA (programs for international student assessment) results; isolating for Alberta from the rest of Canada, we ranked 2nd in the world for science and literacy, and 7th in math. In 4 years time when these elementary students hit high schools, I wouldn’t be surprised if we see these results dip.

Another indicator of how things are going is that the Northwest Territories used to adopt Alberta’s curriculum because of the strength of our results. Since the new curriculum rolled out, NWT has dumped it in favor of BC’s curriculum.

Elementary is dire. Huge classes, lots of complexity, no time with the the absurd Grade 1-3 testing. The new curriculum and PAT is just the cherry on top.

I had to console the grade 6 teacher at my school last year for an hour after the math PAT. I've never seen her so upset. She spent the entire year not only teaching the curriculum but teaching her class how to take the test (i.e., is my answer to the question 'logically' correct) - and they absolutely bombed it.