Francis: It's time for the Flames to get serious about bottoming out

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Francis is well known to repeat what management has told him. He's annoying but more often than not he's right as far as what management is doing.

The thing is, he's not claiming to say what management is doing. He's blaming them for not doing what they actually have been doing for a couple of years now. Complete disconnect from reality.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The point is the deadline is the last chance to put yourself over the top, its not only about cap

Yeah but for contending teams prior it made sense to wait until then because it had cap benefits, and they couldn't afford to add the player sooner.

But also meant that the teams that had fallen out of the race at that point weren't bidders.

Now for a contending team it's irrelevant to wait - there are no cap benefits to waiting, and they can integrate the player on their roster sooner which has benefits. And you might be able to catch a team more desperate to save their season too before they decide just to give up on the year.

Personally I think if you want to maximize the potential interested market in a player you have, the new rules have changed it to be more beneficial to make the move before Christmas.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The Flames have had extra firsts every year for 3 years now...they are already doing that. Also, it couldn't have been that obvious considering he was drafted at the end of round 2 after he was passed on 60 times!

It was obvious IMO.

I posted right after the Ronni pick that the Flames would regret not taking Hutson.

Most discussion from people before the draft was that Hutson wouldn't even be there at the Flames pick.

It was an obvious example of teams missing on a player that had elite skill level, because he was too small to be an NHL dman.

And I never said they weren't doing that...in fact I think I posted yesterday that the Flames have been good at doing that and have been a +6 surplus in the first 3 rounds of the 2024-2026 NHL draft. They need to keep doing that.

Edit: And nobody said it was obvious to take him earlier that all 30 teams should have picked him in the top 30 or even 45 of the draft...it became obvious from about pick 55 onwards that he was by far the most skilled player left on that draft board.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Now for a contending team it's irrelevant to wait - there are no cap benefits to waiting,

That's not true at all. Teams are still accruing cap space during the season, and can add players at the deadline that they would not have the cap space to add earlier in the season. The playoff cap applies only to the 20 players dressed on a given night, not to the entire roster, so a team has to go over the regular-season cap to get maximum benefit under the playoff cap.

[Dx54]

Francis is my GOAT. The GOAT.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Calgary and Vegas are not playing the same game.

Vegas is playing chess, and Calgary is shoving pieces of Lego up their ass.

They are overrated. Losers couldn't even beat the Oilers in the playoffs last year.

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by fotze2

I'm on Team 'sell the team to an owner who isn't Jabba the fotze'.

Don't you guys worry, we are gonna go on a tear.

FTFY

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Someone likes Francis? That's wild.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It was obvious IMO.

I posted right after the Ronni pick that the Flames would regret not taking Hutson.

Most discussion from people before the draft was that Hutson wouldn't even be there at the Flames pick.

It was an obvious example of teams missing on a player that had elite skill level, because he was too small to be an NHL dman.

And I never said they weren't doing that...in fact I think I posted yesterday that the Flames have been good at doing that and have been a +6 surplus in the first 3 rounds of the 2024-2026 NHL draft. They need to keep doing that.

Edit: And nobody said it was obvious to take him earlier that all 30 teams should have picked him in the top 30 or even 45 of the draft...it became obvious from about pick 55 onwards that he was by far the most skilled player left on that draft board.

We have to keep in mind it was a different GM at the helm.
Based on drafting patterns since, I think there is a strong chance Conroy would have taken him.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That's not true at all. Teams are still accruing cap space during the season, and can add players at the deadline that they would not have the cap space to add earlier in the season. The playoff cap applies only to the 20 players dressed on a given night, not to the entire roster, so a team has to go over the regular-season cap to get maximum benefit under the playoff cap.

So there is a small benefit - but also tough to navigate come playoff time because the full cap hit and not the accrued cap hit is what counts to the 20 player cap.

So sure if you have a player you can sit that's a big salary that is overpaid that you don't mind having on your bench that works.

But you can't go acquire a $5M player because his allocation at the deadline is only $1M then fit that into your roster easily unless you have an injury or somebody you can sit.

Retention is going to be a much bigger tool than the accrual IMO.

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

We have to keep in mind it was a different GM at the helm.
Based on drafting patterns since, I think there is a strong chance Conroy would have taken him.

Agreed actually. And would love to know what the discussion was between Button, Conroy, Treliving, etc at the time that pick was made with Hutson there.

I do actually think having Sutter in the organization influenced how we drafted over those couple of seasons too...

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Francis is well known to repeat what management has told him. He's annoying but more often than not he's right as far as what management is doing.

He gets coin flip probability predictions wrong like 85% of the time if not more.

Even if he is fed intel, it clearly still hasn't helped him get a clue as he's dead wrong on the majority of his claims.

And many times he plays devils advocate just for the sake of it and publicity it generates.

Saying the team should bottom out only after its become abundantly obvious to every one else is something special. Wow, 1-6-1 team that cant score more than a goal a njght should commit to being bad for the future, you don't say Eric?

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Find the timing of this comment very weird, if it’s true that Francis is a “mouthpiece”.

It’s been obvious for a long time what needs to happen and I kind of thought they were already doing it just not publicly acknowledging it (which I also thought was weird).

Like yeah, ####ing obviously holy smokes. If the brain trust is just coming to this strategic realization now we are extremely screwed.

Like this comment should have been made 2 years ago.

This isn't about the brain trust. This is about one guy who doesn'te even live in this country. Either Conny is floating a trial baloon through Francis to be able to convince Murray the fans are alright with this. or Murray is doing it himself to convince himself the fans won't riot. I would bet a lot of money everyone below Murray is on the same page as to how to build a cup winning team. The only path is through multiple top three picks. Period.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

But you can't go acquire a $5M player because his allocation at the deadline is only $1M then fit that into your roster easily unless you have an injury or somebody you can sit.

This is the key. How many teams ever go deep in the playoffs without injuries?

If I owned an NHL team, and my GM went out and got a $5 million player who had to sit in the pressbox for four rounds of playoffs for cap reasons, I'd be ecstatic, because that would mean the team (a) never had enough injuries to let him draw in, and (b) played four rounds in the playoffs.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

We have to keep in mind it was a different GM at the helm.
Based on drafting patterns since, I think there is a strong chance Conroy would have taken him.

We took Basha over his brother who appears to be on the same trajectory...so I doubt it.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

So there is a small benefit - but also tough to navigate come playoff time because the full cap hit and not the accrued cap hit is what counts to the 20 player cap.

So sure if you have a player you can sit that's a big salary that is overpaid that you don't mind having on your bench that works.

But you can't go acquire a $5M player because his allocation at the deadline is only $1M then fit that into your roster easily unless you have an injury or somebody you can sit.

Retention is going to be a much bigger tool than the accrual IMO.



Agreed actually. And would love to know what the discussion was between Button, Conroy, Treliving, etc at the time that pick was made with Hutson there.

I do actually think having Sutter in the organization influenced how we drafted over those couple of seasons too...

I think you will see expensive young depth moved for league minimum veteran depth as well. Not sure if you can RS on a league minimum player and have some player with half the league minimum cap hit come playoff time.

Will top teams pay to get rid of expensive depth in the 25-29 range?

Colorado is paying Colton $4M to play 12 mins a night. If they want to load up, dumping him and adding a $800k veteran who is just as good will give them options to add big money players. Can we get a quality pick to take Colton in a deal for Lomberg or Kirkland?

1 tank season this year with 2 RS spots and millions of cap with a bunch of quality vets could set this team up for a long time

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

We took Basha over his brother who appears to be on the same trajectory...so I doubt it.

Yes but by that point they had several other offensive dmen in the system: Parekh, Mews, Morin.

When Lane was in the draft they only had Poirier.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Potentially testing the reaction to what they are internally discussing?

This is precisely what's happening.

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Someone likes Francis? That's wild.

Found his account. Or maybe Diane's? Is she still around?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

He gets coin flip probability predictions wrong like 85% of the time if not more.

Even if he is fed intel, it clearly still hasn't helped him get a clue as he's dead wrong on the majority of his claims.

And many times he plays devils advocate just for the sake of it and publicity it generates.

Saying the team should bottom out only after its become abundantly obvious to every one else is something special. Wow, 1-6-1 team that cant score more than a goal a njght should commit to being bad for the future, you don't say Eric?

Except he's not dead wrong about what management is doing usually. He's annoying AF, and his knoledge of on ice stuff is no better than an average fan. But when he talkes about ownership stuff, it's because he's fed it.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Titan2

Found his account. Or maybe Diane's? Is she still around?

She is. She still shows up for special engagements and provides intelligent commentary on world events. Say what you want about Eric (I personally don’t mind him), but Diane Francis is a treasure.