Flames extend Huska for 2 more years

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by P-bobby

I get the point about talent, but that does not excuse how the team plays. You can lack elite scorers and still have an identity, tempo, and purpose. The Flames do not. The system is built around dump ins and perimeter shots, and it kills any creativity the roster might have.

Look at Huberdeau. He went from a 115 point playmaker to invisible overnight. That is not just a talent issue, that is a system that does not fit its players. Teams like Nashville and the Islanders have proven you can play structured hockey without being this boring.

Fans did not ask for boring and bad. They wanted a rebuild with direction, effort, youth, and signs of progress. Instead, they are watching the same predictable, low event hockey every night. Lack of talent explains losing. It does not explain lifeless.

As someone who gutted out the Panthers rebuild, you have to understand Jiri's point. Bad teams struggle to score because they lack talent, but also because they are typically hemmed in their zone for large portions of the night because they can't defend. Last year the Flames managed to stay out of their own zone more often, but this year they can't because they really do lack talent on defense and offense. When Jake Bean is playing 20 minutes a night, you're going to have a bad time.

The year I became a Panthers fan in 2013/14, I had to suffer through one of the worst seasons ever. That year, their top scorer was Nick Bjugstad. He had 38 points. Yes, you heard that right, their top scorer had 38 points total. That year, Huberdeau and Barkov were just breaking into the league and had 28 and 24 points respectively. Were they terrible offensive players? No, but they were developing and had very little around them for support.

I suspect we are experiencing that sort of a season for the Flames. Take heart...it will only take a decade from now to reach the pinnacle of a Stanley Cup Championship season.

[P-bobby]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

As someone who gutted out the Panthers rebuild, you have to understand Jiri's point. Bad teams struggle to score because they lack talent, but also because they are typically hemmed in their zone for large portions of the night because they can't defend. Last year the Flames managed to stay out of their own zone more often, but this year they can't because they really do lack talent on defense and offense. When Jake Bean is playing 20 minutes a night, you're going to have a bad time.

The year I became a Panthers fan in 2013/14, I had to suffer through one of the worst seasons ever. That year, their top scorer was Nick Bjugstad. He had 38 points. Yes, you heard that right, their top scorer had 38 points total. That year, Huberdeau and Barkov were just breaking into the league and had 28 and 24 points respectively. Were they terrible offensive players? No, but they were developing and had very little around them for support.

I suspect we are experiencing that sort of a season for the Flames. Take heart...it will only take a decade from now to reach the pinnacle of a Stanley Cup Championship season.

The Flames aren’t struggling because they’re stuck in their own zone. They spend about 40 percent of the game there, below the NHL average, and rank top ten in possession metrics. They control the puck, and still can’t score because the system kills creativity. Dump-and-chase and low-percentage point shots are holding back both young players and vets.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by P-bobby

The Flames aren’t struggling because they’re stuck in their own zone. They spend about 40 percent of the game there, below the NHL average, and rank top ten in possession metrics. They control the puck, and still can’t score because the system kills creativity. Dump-and-chase and low-percentage point shots are holding back both young players and vets.

On average, yes, they get out of their zone, but they have had a lot more extended periods stuck in their zone and give up grade A chances more frequently as a result.

The point remains that the Flames have some young promising talent that is still developing, and some older diminishing talent that can no longer put up the points. Don't be surprised if the top scorer this year puts up 40-50 points max.

[P-bobby]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yup the fact is most bad teams are boring
That young and exciting Sharks team finished dead last in goals for last year
Bad teams aren’t fun to watch. The Venn diagram of bad teams that are also entertaining is thin if not non existent

And if one really believes the team needs a high draft pick why on earth would you contemplate a coaching change. Typically you get a new coach bounce which only would push them up the standings but still nowhere near the mayors

Sure, most bad teams are boring, but that doesn’t mean they have to be. Look at teams like Columbus or Anaheim. They’ve struggled in the standings but still play with speed, creativity, and purpose. Calgary’s issue isn’t losing, it’s how they’re losing. The system sucks the life out of every offensive shift.

And no one is saying a coaching change should push them into the playoffs. It’s about putting a system in place that helps young players grow and keeps fans invested. If you’re rebuilding, you don’t want to just lose games, you want to learn something from them. Right now, this style teaches nothing but frustration.

Imagine picking up McKenna in the draft this year and Huska sticking him on the third line with Backlund and Coleman, playing dump and chase hockey. What’s the point of drafting skill if the system never lets it breathe?

[Bingo]

I don't think Huska is the best hockey coach to ever come along. I don't see a need to defend the guy, and I'm pretty sure his shelf life doesn't have him here when the team improves.

I wouldn't lose much sleep if they went another way.

But ZERO hockey coaches would coach their team to shoot from the perimeter. Zero. You'd have to land on Earth from Mars the morning you coached your first game not to see heat maps of where goals are scored and not understand it won't work to do it from the outside.

But you need individual talent to ramp up offence into a play driving, seam pass laded, dynamic state. Not one guy. Not two ... but at least 6-8 high octane players.

The Flames have maybe two.

[P-bobby]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't think Huska is the best hockey coach to ever come along. I don't see a need to defend the guy, and I'm pretty sure his shelf life doesn't have him here when the team improves.

I wouldn't lose much sleep if they went another way.

But ZERO hockey coaches would coach their team to shoot from the perimeter. Zero. You'd have to land on Earth from Mars the morning you coached your first game not to see heat maps of where goals are scored and not understand it won't work to do it from the outside.

But you need individual talent to ramp up offence into a play driving, seam pass laded, dynamic state. Not one guy. Not two ... but at least 6-8 high octane players.

The Flames have maybe two.

I actually agree with a lot of this. No coach in the NHL is deliberately telling players to fire from the perimeter. Everyone knows where goals are scored. The problem isn’t intent, it’s execution. The system still ends up producing those low-danger looks, and that’s where I think Huska’s structure limits what little offensive creativity this roster has.

And sure, the Flames don’t have six elite play drivers, but they also don’t have zero. Guys like Kadri, Huberdeau, and even Sharangovich (too a lesser extent) have shown they can create when given freedom. Right now, they look like robots following a checklist instead of hockey players making reads.

So yes, talent is an issue, but system and deployment still matter. Huska might not be the main reason for the lack of goals, but he’s definitely part of why the team feels so limited offensively.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by P-bobby

I get the point about talent, but that does not excuse how the team plays. You can lack elite scorers and still have an identity, tempo, and purpose. The Flames do not. The system is built around dump ins and perimeter shots, and it kills any creativity the roster might have.

Look at Huberdeau. He went from a 115 point playmaker to invisible overnight. That is not just a talent issue, that is a system that does not fit its players. Teams like Nashville and the Islanders have proven you can play structured hockey without being this boring.

Fans did not ask for boring and bad. They wanted a rebuild with direction, effort, youth, and signs of progress. Instead, they are watching the same predictable, low event hockey every night. Lack of talent explains losing. It does not explain lifeless.

Huberdeau dropped from 115 points to his current trajectory under Sutter. In fact he has produced better under Huska.

You reference Nashville, Islanders and later in this thread Anaheim.

Nashville and Anaheim scored fewer goals per game last year. The Islanders finished just above Calgary.

Bad teams struggle to create offense.

Did you think the team lacked direction and effort last year?

[P-bobby]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Huberdeau dropped from 115 points to his current trajectory under Sutter. In fact he has produced better under Huska.

You reference Nashville, Islanders and later in this thread Anaheim.

Nashville and Anaheim scored fewer goals per game last year. The Islanders finished just above Calgary.

Bad teams struggle to create offense.

Did you think the team lacked direction and effort last year?

I get what you’re saying, but the hockey Huska is coaching is basically the same as Sutter’s. The only difference is that Huska is a kinder person. On the ice, it’s still a cautious, low-event, dump-and-chase system that kills creativity. Huberdeau didn’t forget how to play, the system just doesn’t fit his strengths.

And while teams like Nashville or Anaheim might not score much either, they at least play faster, more open hockey where young players are learning to attack and take risks. Calgary’s system is slow and cautious, which stunts development and makes every game look the same.

And sure, bad teams struggle to score, but that doesn’t mean you double down on a style that stifles development. Do you really think this kind of hockey helps a player like Parekh grow into what he could be?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Parekh needs to learn to become an overall dman. Compared to Buium he's got way more holes in his game. They are not trying to develop him into MA Bergeron, they are trying to develop him into an elite dman. That means he has to be able to defend as well as generate offense. So yes I see that as part of the development path.

I have a hard time commenting on your perception of the system, because your descriptions are vague. I don't know what you mean by "play faster more open hockey" and how you are measuring it. I don't know how much you watch these teams you are referencing, but a lot of your complaints I hear from fans of those teams, including how their young players are being deployed.

I largely think it's a perception issue more than reality. Not aided by the fact that right now, no question, the Flames are playing some of the most boring, worst hockey we've seen in these parts for a long time. But they aren't going to score 1 goal a game for the entire season. But they will probably be bad.

This is what bottoming out looks like. I worry if we can't even seemingly handle 10 games of it. Because there might be a few years of this.

Go look at the standings from last year. All the teams near the bottom have one thing in common: they suck at scoring.

It's not a system issue. It's not a coaching issue.
Talent creates offense and goals
Lack of talent is hard to over come.

[fotze2]

I truly believe coaching is overrated.

Our once great poster here Jammies once said the following I still keep tucked up under my notes app.

It is humanity's admiration for "leadership" as a simplistic, popular and illusory explanation for collective success.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by P-bobby

I get what you’re saying, but the hockey Huska is coaching is basically the same as Sutter’s. The only difference is that Huska is a kinder person. On the ice, it’s still a cautious, low-event, dump-and-chase system that kills creativity. Huberdeau didn’t forget how to play, the system just doesn’t fit his strengths.

And while teams like Nashville or Anaheim might not score much either, they at least play faster, more open hockey where young players are learning to attack and take risks. Calgary’s system is slow and cautious, which stunts development and makes every game look the same.

And sure, bad teams struggle to score, but that doesn’t mean you double down on a style that stifles development. Do you really think this kind of hockey helps a player like Parekh grow into what he could be?

Did they ignore the coach last night? Because they were driving the net all night, passing to the slot, carrying the puck into the zone. They just didn't score on their chances. That's a talent issue, not a coaching issue.

[PepsiFree]

Highest percentage of shots that miss the net and lowest shooting team shooting percentage from all areas. Is the coaching teaching players to miss the next and otherwise not score on the shots that do hit?

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by P-bobby

The Flames aren’t struggling because they’re stuck in their own zone. They spend about 40 percent of the game there, below the NHL average, and rank top ten in possession metrics. They control the puck, and still can’t score because the system kills creativity. Dump-and-chase and low-percentage point shots are holding back both young players and vets.

Do you really think Huska is demanding the Flames launch floaters from the point?

He is not telling them, hold the puck at the blue line until you make eye contact with the goalie, then shoot.

It takes guts to drive the net. You get smoked. Cross checked. You might lose teeth.

Our guys are comfortable playing the perimeter game. And only 2-3 guys have shots capable of scoring from there (but they are not).

I'm not sold on Huska either - or any of our coaches. But this fantasy that he is the one asking players to play a light easy to defend against game is nuts. He wants a heavy, direct, net front presence game. Just like every other coach that's run a low talent team.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by fotze2

I truly believe coaching is overrated.

Our once great poster here Jammies once said the following I still keep tucked up under my notes app.

It is humanity's admiration for "leadership" as a simplistic, popular and illusory explanation for collective success.

And systems apply way more to defensive zone structure and tracking (gaps) than what happens in the offensive zone.

You may coach to have your F3 active with a pinch for example, but you're not coaching "perimeter" vs "slot" in the offensive zone.

[GioforPM]

In fact, Huska said that perimeter shots were not what he wanted.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And systems apply way more to defensive zone structure and tracking (gaps) than what happens in the offensive zone.

You may coach to have your F3 active with a pinch for example, but you're not coaching "perimeter" vs "slot" in the offensive zone.

Exactly. Short of PP and zone entries there is hardly any 'offense system' in hockey.

Huska is preaching go to the net hard. He has from day one as coach. It's the number one thing to break a slump, and why Farabee looks good (he keeps trying to raid the crease).

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Do you really think Huska is demanding the Flames launch floaters from the point?

He is not telling them, hold the puck at the blue line until you make eye contact with the goalie, then shoot.

It takes guts to drive the net. You get smoked. Cross checked. You might lose teeth.

Our guys are comfortable playing the perimeter game. And only 2-3 guys have shots capable of scoring from there (but they are not).

I'm not sold on Huska either - or any of our coaches. But this fantasy that he is the one asking players to play a light easy to defend against game is nuts. He wants a heavy, direct, net front presence game. Just like every other coach that's run a low talent team.

I would add that every coach wants their guys to generate more chances from the middle of the ice. But doing that - is really hard at the NHL level and where it requires high end talent to be able to do that.
Which is another reason why it seems like bad teams are more perimeter. Not because they are being told to be - but because they lack the players who can actually get to the middle to generate chances.

It's also one of the things that is consistent about players who create offense in junior and the minors, but not at the NHL. They can't get to the middle. They don't have the speed, skill or size to create the separation required. So they get pushed to the outside constantly.

[GioforPM]

Huberdeau was criticized a lot for passing to the middle, but the issue was the pass recipients more often than not. When he finally got on the same page with a guy who has skill (Kadri) better things happened.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I personally blame Dave Lowry. They were fine until he joined the coaching staff.

#correlation=causation.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It's also one of the things that is consistent about players who create offense in junior and the minors, but not at the NHL. They can't get to the middle. They don't have the speed, skill or size to create the separation required. So they get pushed to the outside constantly.

There were so many great examples of that last night where Flames could not get to the night despite trying.

In the 3rd Lombo tried with speed and force and could not quite get there. He was boxed out. Missing skill.

All night 27 and 47 were trying to use speed and skills to get there. Boxed out. Missing strength.

So dump ins and trying to win board battles/cycles while someone gets open in the crease is a reasonable strategy when you lack the mix of characteristics in your players for successful net drives.

The heavy game also wears down those defensemen so that it gets harder to box our players out as the night goes on.