If you were American who would you vote for?

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by calculoso

I'd wager a guess.... the HMOs and Health Care 'insurance' companies contribute to their election coffers?

Sorry, I mean people in this thread, not officials. I can understand why politicians, insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies don't want universal health care.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Azure

Nobody said anything about values being different...which would make this a totally different discussion. Running away because you don't like the probable outcome seems a bit dumb to me. I don't like the Liberals either...and I would NEVER move away if Dion became PM. My love for Canada extends beyond the PM's office.

You're right, all those silly jews who fled Germany should've tried to stick around and fix things, or the aristocratic cubans who fled before the revolution, or the Americans who fled to escape the meat grinder of vietnam, or the former politburo members who fled russia prior to the collapse of the soviet union or the russian aristocrats who fled 70 years earlier following the February Revolution.

I can tell you right now, if I were american, I'd try to leave too.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Why is everyone so against universal health care in the US?

Have you ever tried to deal with a large American bureaucracy?

It would be such a huge waste of money.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Have you ever tried to deal with a large American bureaucracy? It would be such a huge waste of money.

And the insurance companys are not large bureaucracies that are hard to deal with? Come on. As I said earlier in this thread I worked at an HMO... not to go all Sicko on you, but the worse they make the red tape for people, the more money they make. Half the coding I did for them was adding more automated ways to deny claims....

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

And the insurance companys are not large bureaucracies that are hard to deal with? Come on. As I said earlier in this thread I worked at an HMO... not to go all Sicko on you, but the worse they make the red tape for people, the more money they make. Half the coding I did for them was adding more automated ways to deny claims....

Imagine one insurance company dealing with 350,000,000 patients.

The US government can't be trusted with that responsibility. I mean that.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

The US government can't be trusted with that responsibility.

I don't necessarily disagree, but the fact remains something has to be done.....although nobody out there seems to know the answer since it's clear it would be one giant clusterfata.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Imagine one insurance company dealing with 350,000,000 patients.The US government can't be trusted with that responsibility. I mean that.

Because the US government is far more flawed than that of other countries?

Canada has it somewhat working with 30 million. The UK has it working even better with double that population. If your contention that the bigger the population the worse the system then why isn't the British system a complete shambles?

[Magnum PEI]

For Transplant 99: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070712/ts_alt_afp/usvote2008giuliani

But in the video, a deputy fire chief whose son also died in the attacks, says the former mayor bears responsibility for flawed radio equipment that meant some firefighters did not hear an order to evacuate the World Trade Center before it collapsed.
"Virtually the whole thing goes back to him with the radios. He's the guy on the top, and he's the guy you yell at," says Jim Riches. "He takes the hit. And my son died because of it."
Captain Peter Gorman adds: "That's what firefighters should remember about Rudy Giuliani. He gave us nothing when we needed a life-saving radio."

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Because the US government is far more flawed than that of other countries?

Canada has it somewhat working with 30 million. The UK has it working even better with double that population. If your contention that the bigger the population the worse the system then why isn't the British system a complete shambles?

All I can tell you is I live here, I have had to (on occasion) utilize social services provided by the Federal government. There is NOTHING efficient about any welfare programs. ZERO.

Hey, I'd love to see it work. I just don't have blind faith that it will.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by The President

The US health system mostly favor the privileged people.

So does Canada's.

People with money don't have to wait.

[monkeyman]

I’m guessing the real difference is in the way they treat people without a lot of money. In Canada you’re less likely to die because you can’t afford health care.

I have a bad feeling about Giuliani. Didn’t New Yorkers hate him before 9/11? 9/11 saved his political career, what did he even do that was so great after that?

[moon]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Why is everyone so against universal health care in the US?

It isn't really a rousing success here in Canada so I 'm not sure why everyone down there is clamoring for it.

Sure some make it sound like the health care system is wonderful here by only talking about the theorectical aspects of how it should work and leaving out the fact it is hugely inefficient and wastes vasts amounts of money.

[Azure]

And it would waste even more money in the US.

[notoepik]

Originally Posted by The President

The US health system mostly favor the privileged people.

That is totally wrong. It favors the poor. The ones lost in the cracks are the middle class that can;t afford insurance and make too much for welfare ( the US version of universal health insurance that is given to those who don't or can't work)

I deal with it everyday. *Welfare* pays the medical providers crap, and the patients get the same treatment as anyone else in an office visit.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by notoepik

That is totally wrong. It favors the poor. The ones lost in the cracks are the middle class that can;t afford insurance and make too much for welfare ( the US version of universal health insurance that is given to those who don't or can't work)

I deal with it everyday. *Welfare* pays the medical providers crap, and the patients get the same treatment as anyone else in an office visit.

I'm starting to realize that there are a lot of myths about the US that have been accepted as truths by the rest of the world.

It's a little bit frustrating.

[Hack&Lube]

Hillary because I want Bill to be the first man. We'd have two Presidents in the Whitehouse.

Everybody would have to say: Hello Mrs. President, Mr. President. It would be great. Also, I tend to trust Bill Clinton on an intellectual level moreso than Juliani, or Edwards which I feel are all poor candidates. Obama is so far an unknown and while I think it would be great to have an African-American President, he is still young and can get in the race again. Hillary is getting up there and it would be even better to have the first woman President to see how America and the world responds to that.

[Azure]

Kennedy was young too...and he was a great President. I'd take the chance with Obama. Especially now.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Azure

Kennedy was young too...and he was a great President. I'd take the chance with Obama. Especially now.

Wasn't Kennedy responsible for the Bay of Pigs and bringing America into the Vietnam war?

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Wasn't Kennedy responsible for the Bay of Pigs and bringing America into the Vietnam war?

I believe LBJ deserves most of the credit for the Vietnam war - it is debatable.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I believe LBJ deserves most of the credit for the Vietnam war - it is debatable.

Kennedy started everything....but like you said, it is debatable. Still doesn't take away from the fact that he was an inspiring person. Calgaryborn...we can find faults with every President. People are kidding themselves if they think Obama, Hillary or Rudy will be perfect.