Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

This blew my mind...some guy from Ukraine thinks the US Government is complicit in Psyops that fuel feelings of Alberta alienation and discontentment.

https://www.reddit.com/r/alberta/s/8baoef3bUu

It's pretty easy to do when you own the media and the ruling party is the dictionary definition of "useful idiot".

[Yamer]

A government with a head of state calling for Canadian statehood is complicit in operations that support sedition and separation?

Mind blown.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

In my head, equalization and disdain for oil & gas would both be less problematic if equalization didn't include resource revenue. Resource revenue for oil & gas should instead have an explicit formula that dictates the royalty split between the rest of Canada and Alberta.

What royalty split? The current royalty split between Canada and Alberta is 0:100.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by simmer2

It takes years to make long term plans for things like oil sands developments. That oil development contributes billions and billions to social programs across the country.

In order for Alberta to grow their economy, (which contributes more per Capita than any other province when taking into account equalization payments) they need to have long term plans for more pipelines. Like planning 10 to 15 years out. So Smith is right, we need another pipeline to continue contributing all the tax revenue that the federal government needs to pay for its debt.

Very little about what Smith says is "right". She lies constantly and almost everything she does goes against the interests of the majority of Albertans.

If a private corporation wants to take the lead on a pipeline under the Liberal's new major project office then there is something to talk about but Smith is currently wasting our money on a project that has no support and is trying to force her will onto another province in a massively hypocritical way that is entirely performative with no substance.

Originally Posted by simmer2

Instead of thinking everyone who posts something fiscally conservative is an automatic 'Berta' redneck, maybe you could also be open-minded and listen to some of the points as well...and who knows, maybe we will find something we agree on!

There is nothing "fiscal" about this exchange. What made me call you an 'Berta Ditchbilly was your ignorant response to the Eby video that I posted. You could have said nothing but instead you had to take the time to run your mouth and slag on the elected leader of the British Columbia government when he was giving a very measured and reasonable response to Smith's unreasonable shenanigans.

You even made a dumb comment about pipelines when, in the very video you were trash talking without watching, Eby was advocating that BC's very real LNG pipeline projects need to go ahead and rightfully should be prioritized over Smith's imaginary pipeline project.

If you want to agree on something, maybe you should agree on how important it is to listen to stakeholders that you need to get any project up and running and understand where they are coming from and what they need to support the project. (The morons of Alberta who think we should have sovereignty are super quick to ignore the rights and "sovereignty" of anyone else.)

We could also agree that real projects take priority over imaginary projects.

Or, if you really wanted to stretch, we could agree that "fiscally conservative" doesn't mean anything anymore. At least it does not mean anything good. Being "fiscally responsible" is good, but "fiscally conservative" now appears to be the act of stealing public sector money to give to individuals or special interest groups with absolutely no return on investment for the people that money was stolen from.

I look forward to hearing about how open-minded you are to what Eby said after you actually listen to his points... Who knows, maybe you will find something that you agree on!

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

This blew my mind...some guy from Ukraine thinks the US Government is complicit in Psyops that fuel feelings of Alberta alienation and discontentment.

https://www.reddit.com/r/alberta/s/8baoef3bUu

Considering the news stories about the Alberta separatists (that Smith has been supporting so aggressively) are hanging out in Washington DC and getting funding from Trump's people, I do not think you need to some guy from the Ukraine to break that story.

I think there is a very real chance that someone should get tried for treason here. Colluding with an foreign government to try and break up Canada.... seems pretty spot on.

[malcolmk14]

It's following the Russia/Ukraine propaganda playbook almost a little too closely for my liking. I have a feeling with Smith going around in the media saying this pipeline is the "last chance to see if Canada works..." this might be a precursor to something more sinister. She's outwardly talking about reviving Keystone XL, and her rhetoric is very focused on Canada being dysfunctional.

This "pipeline" is killed, Smith keeps pushing the "Canada is broken" narrative, her rube base eats it up, and down the road somewhere the US comes to "liberate" Alberta from the tyrannical Canadian government who won't approve any projects.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

What royalty split? The current royalty split between Canada and Alberta is 0:100.

Equalization formula includes 50% of resource revenue. Yes, there's no explicit royalty sharing. But there's definitely an implicit sharing of royalty revenue.

I think by making it explicit, all Canadians better understand they directly benefit from oil and gas production

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Equalization formula includes 50% of resource revenue. Yes, there's no explicit royalty sharing. But there's definitely an implicit sharing of royalty revenue.

I think by making it explicit, all Canadians better understand they directly benefit from oil and gas production

Resource revenue counts as part of the fiscal capacity calculation, but no royalty dollars go to any sort of equalization fund.

For natural resources, consistent with the 2006 Expert Panel’s recommendation, fiscal capacity is assessed based on partial inclusion of actual revenue collected by the province. However, a province’s Equalization payment cannot raise its fiscal capacity above that of a non-receiving province when all resource revenues are taken into account.

The way I read this is it's only going to matter if you are a have-not province.


It's such a weird thing to want. "If only other Canadians knew how much we helped them, maybe they'd give into our demands more." Do you see how infantile this is? Do you know how much the auto sector or forestry or aerospace or tech help Canada? Do you care? Probably not.


And furthermore, it's basically an admission that yes, all our glory and superiority is, in fact, based on something natural that just happens to be more concentrated in the part of Canada we live in. BOW DOWN TO US.


Embarrassing.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Resource revenue counts as part of the fiscal capacity calculation, but no royalty dollars go to any sort of equalization fund.




The way I read this is it's only going to matter if you are a have-not province.


It's such a weird thing to want. "If only other Canadians knew how much we helped them, maybe they'd give into our demands more." Do you see how infantile this is? Do you know how much the auto sector or forestry or aerospace or tech help Canada? Do you care? Probably not.


And furthermore, it's basically an admission that yes, all our glory and superiority is, in fact, based on something natural that just happens to be more concentrated in the part of Canada we live in. BOW DOWN TO US.


Embarrassing.

Yes - the bottom line is that 50% of resource revenue is included into equalization formulas, so have -not provinces get backdoor sharing of Alberta's oil sands royalties.

If Alberta oil sands provided $10b to Quebec and $3b to BC via fiscal federalism as an example, then I think that should be explicit. Because then - also explicit - is that a new pipeline drives more royalty dollars, so more money for Quebec and BC and all the other provinces too because they share in those royalties. I would think that also increases public support for pipelines and egress all across the country. Right now, that's exactly what happens, but it happens via equalization so it's hidden in a complex formula.

[Mr.Coffee]

Of course Eby is going to take an anti-pipeline stance. His province gets to take all the risk with what upside?

Alberta simply needs to make a deal with BC to loop them in on the win, then I think magically BC might be on board which makes sense. Smith should be saying we want this pipeline for the benefit of Canadians not staying silent on that part. Albertans (and oil companies / midstreamers that take over the line) are going to have to wrap their head around that.

It’s a wildly economic project. But more importantly, it will give us gigantic geopolitical leverage with the USA, which looks like it’s going to be important moving forward.

[Fuzz]

Ah yes, one of Smith's most exemplified virtues. Sharing.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

It's following the Russia/Ukraine propaganda playbook almost a little too closely for my liking. I have a feeling with Smith going around in the media saying this pipeline is the "last chance to see if Canada works..." this might be a precursor to something more sinister. She's outwardly talking about reviving Keystone XL, and her rhetoric is very focused on Canada being dysfunctional.

This "pipeline" is killed, Smith keeps pushing the "Canada is broken" narrative, her rube base eats it up, and down the road somewhere the US comes to "liberate" Alberta from the tyrannical Canadian government who won't approve any projects.

I don’t think so - her fantasy is to be PM.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Of course Eby is going to take an anti-pipeline stance. His province gets to take all the risk with what upside?

Alberta simply needs to make a deal with BC to loop them in on the win, then I think magically BC might be on board which makes sense. Smith should be saying we want this pipeline for the benefit of Canadians not staying silent on that part. Albertans (and oil companies / midstreamers that take over the line) are going to have to wrap their head around that.

It’s a wildly economic project. But more importantly, it will give us gigantic geopolitical leverage with the USA, which looks like it’s going to be important moving forward.

Well that’s the thing; it’s Canadian energy and not only Alberta’s. I know, I know the BNA Act says we get the money, but still.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by troutman

I don’t think so - her fantasy is to be PM.

Gross

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Of course Eby is going to take an anti-pipeline stance. His province gets to take all the risk with what upside?

Alberta simply needs to make a deal with BC to loop them in on the win, then I think magically BC might be on board which makes sense. Smith should be saying we want this pipeline for the benefit of Canadians not staying silent on that part. Albertans (and oil companies / midstreamers that take over the line) are going to have to wrap their head around that.

It’s a wildly economic project. But more importantly, it will give us gigantic geopolitical leverage with the USA, which looks like it’s going to be important moving forward.

lol wat?

If you listen to what he is saying, Eby's stance is actually pro-pipeline. His priority is the REAL pipeline projects that have a private company proponent and are in the final stages of actively moving ahead instead of a pretend pipeline project that Smith is trying to manifest out of nothing.

He is against an imaginary project that has no private proponent that is calling up stakeholders in BC and saying "we are going to ram this Alberta pipeline through your land too". The stakeholders are now questioning whether or not they will support the LNG pipeline because of Smith's cronies performing terrible communication on the Alberta project that doesn't exist.

The LNG pipelines are more economical than Smith's pipeline because they are actually happening and Eby is pissed that Smith is reaching into his province and messing with BC projects. He has said plainly that she needs to back off and ensure that the LNG projects move ahead and if she wants to get more Alberta oil to the BC coast there is a real optimization project on TMX that he is willing to collaborate on as a short term win.

You guys really have to start listening to what the Premier of BC is saying and stop trying to make it up in your own head. He is being entirely reasonable and showing that Smith is not. (Then again, this is probably Smith's plan because she doesn't actually want this imaginary pipeline to happen, she just wants to set the stage for trying to separate with this pipeline being the key issue.)

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by troutman

I don’t think so - her fantasy is to be PM.

Of the republic of Alberta. She wants nothing to do with all of Canada.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by troutman

I don’t think so - her fantasy is to be PM.

I am pretty sure Doug Ford will shank her before that ever happens.

He has been taking jabs at both her and PP for a while now. After the leadership review in January, I wonder if Ford and/or Smith make a move for the federal party....

Maybe that is another reason for Smith to have a snap election? If she loses provincially then she can flee to take over PP's seat on the federal stage.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ah yes, one of Smith's most exemplified virtues. Sharing.

I don't think it matter if Smith wants to share or not. Or who is in power and how much the party in power wants to share. Equalization and fiscal federalism are a foundation of Canadian Confederation. In other words there will always be sharing of Alberta's oil sands revenue because it allows Alberta to provide a higher level of public services and public services should be comparable between the provinces. Ie all Canadians are entitled to reasonably similar (or a minimum standard) of healthcare, education, etc.

That effectively makes the oil sands a Canadian resource as much as an Alberta one. Like it not, facts are facts. So pipelines too benefit all Canadians by allowing for more production. That narrative needs to be amplified because continued development of the oil sands (which could be doubled in terms of daily production) would result in a meaningful improvement in public services across the country without needing to increase personal or corporate income tax to pay for it.

I'm dont work in oil and gas (nor am I invested in it), but I genuinely appreciate what a gift the oil sands are, allowing us a substantially higher level of public services relative to the taxes we pay. I think we'd all be better off as Canadians if that was more widely appreciated. There's a reason why Saudis, Norwegians, Emeratis, Kruwatis, etc have a consensus to maximize oil and gas production. It's because the citizens can clearly sees how much they benefit from it.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

It's following the Russia/Ukraine propaganda playbook almost a little too closely for my liking. I have a feeling with Smith going around in the media saying this pipeline is the "last chance to see if Canada works..." this might be a precursor to something more sinister. She's outwardly talking about reviving Keystone XL, and her rhetoric is very focused on Canada being dysfunctional.

This "pipeline" is killed, Smith keeps pushing the "Canada is broken" narrative, her rube base eats it up, and down the road somewhere the US comes to "liberate" Alberta from the tyrannical Canadian government who won't approve any projects.

It could be an attempt to widen support for separation outside of her base, who are mostly on board already. This could be her saying “Look, I made an honest effort to work with Canada and they refused”

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Of the republic of Alberta. She wants nothing to do with all of Canada.

She may know there is no way she could fool enough Canadians as easily as her ucp base