October 6 - So it Begins - The Alberta Teacher Strike

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Wolven

When the public system is chronically underfunded, how exactly are they supposed to open up alternative programs within the system? Those are the kinds of luxuries that come with average or above average funding.

I have thrown around some numbers around charter schools, they came straight from the government of Alberta website that was linked to by Jason Scott. The government was gifting $123M to charter schools in the 2024 budget (while refusing to allocate any additional funding to the public system or allocate any budget to build any of the new schools that they promised) and more specifically, gift wrapped $43M to build a building for a charter school in Calgary (Foundations for the Future Charter Academy).

The drama of Jason's post is that he says the charter school then hired Rajan Sawhney's 20 something daughter a spot on their board of directors. For those that may recall the last UCP leadership race, Sawhney was one of the other people running against Smith. It was a nice little perk to give in exchange for Sawhney's loyalty.

So while the "per student" funding may be the same in the government budget, they are able to do other things, like gift the charter school a $43M building for free. Then at the same time, the charter school is able to accept private funds to allow their program to exceed what the public system can deliver.

The school itself is a non-profit but that just means that in their year end finances they cannot have a profit. So any money that might be viewed as a profit can be spent on *anything* to get it out of the profit column. That spending of money is typically where grifts occur.

Charter schools in Alberta started as an innovation incubator to develop new learning methods and then reintegrate back into the public system. The problem is that Charter schools never reintegrate and instead have morphed into quasi private schools that collect more public funding than regular private schools.

To get to the punchline, charter schools should be dumped as a failed program. The individual schools should be given a choice to either reintegrate into the public system or to convert to full private schools. This would fulfill your first comment to have more spots for specialized programs in the public system by having these schools inside the public system.

At the same time, private schools should be fully defunded or also be reintegrated into the public system.

Eliminating a tiered education system is an important step to building a world class education system.

The bolded isn't how non-profits work. They just can't distribute the surplus but can carry a reserve.

How is a charter school not the public education system? It's available to everyone and can't charge tuition.

[corporatejay]

nm

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Charter schools can not charge tuition. The schools can raise funds and accept donations just the same as any public school.

Public schools don’t fundraise. The Parent Society of a school may fundraise but there are strict limits on what they can spend the money on.

[MrButtons]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

The bolded isn't how non-profits work. They just can't distribute the surplus but can carry a reserve.

How is a charter school not the public education system? It's available to everyone and can't charge tuition.

Theres a difference though.

Charter schools are publicly funded but not public in function. Everyone can apply, but not everyone can attend. Public schools are the only system where every child, regardless of circumstance or capacity, is guaranteed a seat.

Edit - technically thats how its supposed to work but given the two immediate comments, practically that might not be how it works..

[you&me]

Originally Posted by MrButtons

Theres a difference though.

Charter schools are publicly funded but not public in function. Everyone can apply, but not everyone can attend. Public schools are the only system where every child, regardless of circumstance or capacity, is guaranteed a seat.

Is that a lot different than a local community school being full? Or does that not happen any more? I know my family had to move when we found out I couldn't attend our local elementary school for ECS.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by MrButtons

Theres a difference though.

Charter schools are publicly funded but not public in function. Everyone can apply, but not everyone can attend. Public schools are the only system where every child, regardless of circumstance or capacity, is guaranteed a seat.

I've applied for and been rejected by CBE schools, tossed my kids on a bus for 45 minutes a day. .

[MrButtons]

Originally Posted by #-3

I've applied for and been rejected by CBE schools, tossed my kids on a bus for 45 minutes a day. .

Not quoting You&me too but appreciate the response. I edited my post accordingly to speak how in practice it should work as I wrote, but reality its not. Thanks for sharing your experiences

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by MrButtons

Theres a difference though.

Charter schools are publicly funded but not public in function. Everyone can apply, but not everyone can attend. Public schools are the only system where every child, regardless of circumstance or capacity, is guaranteed a seat.

Edit - technically thats how its supposed to work but given the two immediate comments, practically that might not be how it works..

There are also options for various language schools (mandarin, french, spanish), theatre (central), IB, and of course Calgary Alternative High School and Bishop Carroll and not everyone can get into those.

[calgaryrocks]

at Heritage Christian Academy they have to apply and the parents pay for the 'Christian Education' portion...not sure how that compares

[jwslam]

I don't think MrButtons is wrong though. You're guaranteed a seat, and definitely not at your preference / convenience.... it might be some slum school that's a 35min drive away with zero bussing options to get there.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by MrButtons

Not quoting You&me too but appreciate the response. I edited my post accordingly to speak how in practice it should work as I wrote, but reality its not. Thanks for sharing your experiences

And while I appreciate the sentiment, in practice it seems that Charter schools aren't that different; they are capacity constrained and in order to deal with that, need to initiate mechanisms such as waitlists and qualifications for suitability to attend the school... As someone pointed out, if a Charter school is sports focussed, is it really 'ant-public-education' of them to deny applications by students that don't play sports?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by jwslam

I don't think MrButtons is wrong though. You're guaranteed a seat, and definitely not at your preference / convenience.... it might be some slum school that's a 35min drive away with zero bussing options to get there.

Brilliant idea! Lets turn the old Ogden Legion into a school!!

Ample parking, lots of space of activities and the kids can spend their recess peeling asbestos!!

[MrButtons]

Originally Posted by you&me

And while I appreciate the sentiment, in practice it seems that Charter schools aren't that different; they are capacity constrained and in order to deal with that, need to initiate mechanisms such as waitlists and qualifications for suitability to attend the school... As someone pointed out, if a Charter school is sports focussed, is it really 'ant-public-education' of them to deny applications by students that don't play sports?

But isn't the governance of them much different? Like public is much more scrutinized in terms of spending on school boards rather than the individual charter schools going straight to the ministry, no? I also don't actually think Charters are the problem, but don't private schools also get public funding? Genuine q as my info may be a touch outdated clearly..

[you&me]

Originally Posted by jwslam

I don't think MrButtons is wrong though. You're guaranteed a seat, and definitely not at your preference / convenience.... it might be some slum school that's a 35min drive away with zero bussing options to get there.

Which is fine... In which case, you could extend that anology to all schools, public, charter and private... You're guaranteed a seat, but it might not be your preference if you apply too late, can't participate in the programming (sports, language, arts, etc), can't pay the additional tuition, etc...

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by MrButtons

But isn't the governance of them much different? Like public is much more scrutinized in terms of spending on school boards rather than the individual charter schools going straight to the ministry, no? I also don't actually think Charters are the problem, but don't private schools also get public funding? Genuine q as my info may be a touch outdated clearly..

Charters get 100% of the funding public gets and have to take applicants on a lottery basis. They don't/can't charge tuition.

Private schools get a fraction of the public level funding from the government and can be more selective if they want to (eg some have an admissions test). They can charge additional tuition without a limit.

IMO the problem isn't charters or private schools - the problem is the government systemically underfunding education in the province.

[MrButtons]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Charters get 100% of the funding public gets and have to take applicants on a lottery basis. They don't/can't charge tuition.

Private schools get a fraction of the public level funding from the government and can be more selective if they want to (eg some have an admissions test). They can charge additional tuition without a limit.

IMO the problem isn't charters or private schools - the problem is the government systemically underfunding education in the province.

Thank you. And probably brings up the true issue - not about robbing peter to pay paul but get peter and paul money.

[#-3]

I'd also say to the comment of UPC members kids getting paid school board jobs. Their blatant and repeated corruption is not because of or exclusive to charter schools, and stopping that doesn't stop the problem.

I do think there is a decent labor organizing arguments that public schools and charter schools essentially have the same employer and that the charter schools are piggybacking the ATAs negotiations without paying dues. It's a fair but somewhat less sympathetic argument.

But they aren't private schools. The CBE runs a bunch of programs that are essentially charter programs, that also have a substantial bias towards more engaged and affluent families, and reject hundreds of qualified applicants every year. who I'm sure do a much much better job of fund raising. The CBE also has large capital requests and many ongoing projects, if you cherry pick a sample of this year, some programs might be seeing more than others and the upc might have some perverse interest in undermining public education as a whole, because it just seems to liberal for them. that is not directly related to the charter schools that have been around for a few decades either. I would also argue that the entire concept of ccsb is the same, it's an inherently exclusionary program that often has the first "public" school in a given neighborhood, there are a lot of programs that a consistent person who has an issue with charter schools as an institution should be going after.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Charters get 100% of the funding public gets and have to take applicants on a lottery basis. They don't/can't charge tuition.

Private schools get a fraction of the public level funding from the government and can be more selective if they want to (eg some have an admissions test). They can charge additional tuition without a limit.

IMO the problem isn't charters or private schools - the problem is the government systemically underfunding education in the province.

By "fraction" you mean 70%, which is unreal.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

By "fraction" you mean 70%, which is unreal.

What kind of school did you go to? 7/10 is a fraction.

I have not and would not argue for a for profit school charging $20000-$30000 / year getting g funding. I was just arguing that charter schools are not the same as those schools.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by #-3

What kind of school did you go to? 7/10 is a fraction.

I have not and would not argue for a for profit school charging $20000-$30000 / year getting g funding. I was just arguing that charter schools are not the same as those schools.

Of course it's a fraction. But when someone says "they receive a fraction" the implication is it's not very much.

0/10 is also a fraction. So is 10/10. So just saying "they receive a fraction" is either a bit disingenuous or just meaningless.