[GDT] Preseason: Jets @ Flames. 7pm MT. calgaryflames.com TSN3

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Man, you use this line so often. Youre not the arbiter of flames fan hood. Just because you love something to the point of blind acceptance doesn't mean everyone must.

It boggles my mind that you continue to wield this insane, unquestioning, dogmatic love for everything the franchise does as s cudgel against other fans as if it is a badge of honor... really its bizarre and oilers cultish.

lol I knew exactly who would thank this
Imagine thinking this not being able to see you and a few others are doing the exact opposite...must be fun to be a fan who is always angry

unquestioning, dogmatic hate...because this is the worst team that has ever existed (despite never being a bottom 5 team ever in 40 years) but this year for sure, same ole Flames

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I said "it" is insane. Not "people" are insane. Stop being so dramatic.

…

You're another one of those posters who needs to relax sometimes. People are allowed to have different opinions on the team without being talked down to.

What would you call labelling those different opinions “insane” or “dramatic” then?

And the posts you just thanked along with some previous ones trying to fight with other posters suggests you’re happy to see it. Perhaps you should take your own advice and support respectful disagreement instead of cheering on people trying to engage in boring spats against people you don’t like.

Most of us don’t take things so seriously.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by getbak

I'm just glad we never have to sit through a 3 week training camp with 8 preseason games again.

Not me. Along with the closed practices during training camp and the lack of scrimmage at dev camp, we're going to see significantly less of the not-quite-ready prospects and how they are measuring up to the pros.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Until Treliving gets off his butt and gets rid of some of Lindholm, Toffoli, Mangiapane, Greer, Rooney, Kuzmenko, Pelletier, Hanifin, Zadorov, Tanev, Markstrom and Vladar this team is going nowhere.

In 36 years, we've made the playoffs 16 times and have won 6 rounds (3 of them in one year).

You guys keep talking about GMs, coaches, players... at what point do y'all finally catch up to me and start looking at the common denominator: the Calgary Flames.

I love the Flames. Always have, always will. But until the mentality of the organization changes, what happens on the ice won't either.

It doesn't mean I'm not a fan. I have been from the very first game they played at the Stampede Corral, and I will continue to be until I'm gone... I do enjoy playoff hockey though. It's the best kind of hockey on the planet. Boy, would I love to see the Flaming C start to get good at it.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Most of us see evidence that the mentality has changed, but it will take time for the team to get better again.

We all know how many playoff rounds they won. You continue to lug that around and use that as your argument for everything.

It's boring.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

It's a rite of passage here to be lectured by Jiri about how you're supposed to talk about the team, players and media members.

Thankfully we're nowhere near Oilers level of dogmatic love and compliance. Just a few old guys yelling at the weather for weathering.

The nice thing is you can simply disregard and carry on.

Yep. And if it is not Jiri, then it is Dino, Pepsi or a couple others.

I'll be the first to admit I have been wrong many times before. But just let people have their opinion on the team. This isn't a group think, not everyone is going to agree that the Flames organization can do no wrong.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Who is saying the Flames can do no wrong?
I’m all for valid criticism based on information

“Typical Flames” is not that
And when confronted with opposing views or actual data posters like you just complain that you should be allowed to have your opinion
And yes you can
And others can tell you why your opinion is weak

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Most of us see evidence that the mentality has changed, but it will take time for the team to get better again.

We all know how many playoff rounds they won. You continue to lug that around and use that as your argument for everything.

It's boring.

Bro. I think you need to do a re-count. Or maybe you have me mixed up with someone else. I almost never bring up playoff rounds other than just saying (in a general sense) that all I really care about is playoff hockey.

You know what's actually boring though? Being ridiculed for wanting to win.
You know what's more fun than cheering for Florida to beat Edmonton in the Finals? Cheering for Calgary to beat Florida in the Finals.

Maybe I'm just better at identifying patterns and knowing what will or won't make a difference in them. I dunno.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Dino has self awareness though. He embraces what he is on here and expects the homer flak he'll get, while diligently getting better at providing justifications for his takes. They aren't just pro-Flames for the sake of it.

We can disagree with people while still respecting how they go about their business.

I'm traditionally pro-Flames, but am more open to seeing it from the other side lately. There are criticisms they've earned for being almost perfectly mediocre and middle of the road that it seems like they do certain things in a way that inadvertently protects that identity. Otherwise they wouldn't remain trapped there.

They're adverse to taking a lot of risk. There's always a foot in the door of just trying to get in again, while also claiming that they want to build to a much better future. And they can't commit fully to one or the other as a result. Which is what keeps them exactly where they are.

Now in most realms, playing it safe and being calculated is the way to go. But this is sports. And teams that set themselves on fire, or make big swings knowing full well that it can backfire on them are the ones that end up getting to where they want to go.

If this team is elite at anything, it's playing it safe. And I've been suckered into their frame of thinking too, pushing away the tank mindset, convinced that we can retool on the fly and eventually get there. But where has that gotten us? 96 points and eliminated by a tie breaker.

In my opinion, they need to have space available for young players pushing up at all times. This keeping replacement level journeymen on who don't move the needle and aren't a part of the future just impedes your ability to capitalize on the young swath of talent you're building. We lost Solo and potentially could have lost Kerins too. That's one, and potentially two less darts to throw at the board, because you can't open up a top 9 spot and because you want to keep the likes of Miromanov and Bean on. That way of operating isn't serving what your blueprint is, and isn't how a rebuilding team (which should be especially accommodating to graduating prospects) should operate.

So yeah, while I think they're doing a lot of things right to build up given that they're intent on trying to make the playoffs in the meantime, there is certainly room for a skepticism, given that we want this team to thrive one day and not just survive in the mushy middle.

[FanIn80]

That's a great post. I wish things in my head would come out like that on paper.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I do think that what is best for this organization is to finish at the bottom of the standings and have a shot at McKenna to help turn this organization completely around. If not McKenna, then a top-end potential superstar. This will go a LONG way into creating a bona fide contender for many seasons to come.


Edmonton has done a piss poor job at drafting, development and UFA signings, yet they have had the same number of SCF appearances in the last 2 years as the Flames have won playoff rounds in the last 20. That's some eye-watering statistic, isn't it?


With that being said, I think the people getting called out for their similar views as mine are getting called out because they are incessant about it. While I do think that there is a legitimate shot at the Flames drafting high this season (and next), I don't relish it. I don't relish paying my mortgage, but it keeps the bank from taking my house. I don't relish sitting in traffic every day, but it allows me to get to where i need to be (eventually) so I can work and pay off my mortgage. I don't relish ignoring my neighbours rather than going over there at 3:00am on a work night as they are partying it up without a care for anyone else, but it keeps me out of jail so that I am able to get into my car for the long drive to work, so I can work and pay my mortgage allowing me to live next to these idiots.


I see the 'pain' of a bad year as necessary in order to turn this rebuild and the next era into a successful one. I don't embrace it. I don't love it. I don't cheer for it. I rather detest it. I just know that I have to do my part to support the team through this downturn in on-ice success. Can you imagine for a second if the 2015 Flames fun as hell season didn't happen, and the Flames ended up drafting McDavid or Eichel? Monahan would have been on the 2nd line, Bennett on the third maybe. I bet the Flames would have won a cup or two. Maybe the woudn't have, but they probably would be more than a bubble team through all that time (and one good season between bubble seasons doesn't count as being a contender to me, especially when the playoffs prove that they were not).


The point is - I feel very much like Monahammer, Rhett, Crimm, etc.,. I understand their pain and issues with the team. I think in some cases, they just are too incessant at times with their opinions - Monahammer less than the others in my opinion actually. I don't see the point of constantly saying I disagree with what is happening, but feel it is probably more worth my time discussing the day-to-day news. I believe that the Flames are indeed rebuilidng anyway, and they are likely to bottom-out. Show me another team that has traded away as many vets as the Flames have while only getting futures in return. I will save you the trouble - most rebuilding teams don't go this far.


I also think it is less likely that the Flames end up as a mediocre team than they were under the Treliving era. The issue with Treliving is that he spent way too many futures on mid and bottom of the lineup players that simply didn't move the needle. Even some of his more heralded moves like trading for Hamilton - which I 100% agreed with at the time - was probably wrong (depending on who the Flames picked). Maybe they would have snagged Kyle Connor and some other pieces? Would have moved the needle much further in the long run, no?



I think Conroy will take the Cheveldayoff approach - slow, patient and build through the draft. I think it can work. I have always said that the Flames' greatest strengths were drafting and development, and Conroy is leaning 100% into this. So I can't complain, even if I may split hairs on exactly which steps to take. Flames may or may not bottom-out still (I think they will). If they don't, I am not going to pout, stomp my feet and complain incessantly. I will just be like I am normally - just discuss about they day-to-day issues, news, bright spots, etc. The Jets have been a fairly successful team under this model, and I believe that Calgary will have advantages over Winnipeg in the long run. They are in a better market (so they will have a slightly easier time attracting UFAs, even if Calgary will never be a UFA destination), the new building will help (increased revenues allows for Calgary to be run as a 1st class organization, as well as better scouting and development. I also think that Conroy will be a little more proactive on making moves as opportunities come - Chevy didn't for a very long time.


So even without drafting in the top 3, I do believe there is a way forward. I just 100% feel the safer way is bottoming-out for 1-2 seasons, but I promise I won't post incessantly about it! lol

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Who is saying the Flames can do no wrong?
I’m all for valid criticism based on information

“Typical Flames” is not that
And when confronted with opposing views or actual data posters like you just complain that you should be allowed to have your opinion
And yes you can
And others can tell you why your opinion is weak

This is the part that’s weirdest to me. Who lives in a world where someone disagreeing with their opinion is equivalent to them not allowing them to have it?

“Oh no Jiri is always telling me I’m wrong!!!” Thoughts and prayers for enduring such hardship.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Nm