Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[iggy_oi]

The other day I was talking with a friend who is a teacher and I asked them what kind of strike benefits they would receive if they did end up on strike and they said they weren’t 100% sure but they think the ATA covers the premium costs to keep their health benefits going but don’t have a fund set up for strike pay.

Are there any ATA members in this thread who can confirm whether or not this is true?

[Point Blank]

Yep, I just read the new Memorandum of Agreement. Teachers will be voting on the from Sept. 27 to 29.

The deal is literally the same as the one we struck down earlier. 12% salary increase over 4 years and 3000 new teachers over 3 years. It's literally the exact same deal that teachers struck down.

All I can say at this moment is the schools I have a pulse on is pissed and intend to vote no. If that happens, then an Oct 6 strike is almost all but a certainty. But some teachers might chicken out, maybe that's what the government is banking on, or they want the strike to happen to keep this fight as ugly as possible.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

The other day I was talking with a friend who is a teacher and I asked them what kind of strike benefits they would receive if they did end up on strike and they said they weren’t 100% sure but they think the ATA covers the premium costs to keep their health benefits going but don’t have a fund set up for strike pay.

Are there any ATA members in this thread who can confirm whether or not this is true?

I don't know about the health benefits thing, but we will definitely not be receiving any strike pay. The ATA has stated that we can refuse a work to rule legislation and pay the associated fine.

[Slava]

Apparently there is a deal in place?

https://globalnews.ca/news/11448318/...ance-minister/

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Well I can't speak for "people", but I can speak for myself and I can also interpret what Cliff is trying to say.

DB pensions are a great benefit and rarely exist in the private sector. They should be looked at as part of an entire compensation package, just like any other job.

Person A makes $105,000 but has no DB pension, maybe has DC and some stock matching.

Person B makes $95,000 but has a DB pension.


If Person B said "I don't make as much as person A and that's not fair" a reasonable response might be "well you do have a DB Pension so you should probably factor that into to the entire calculation package"

Instead it seems people here view that as suggesting Person B doesn't "deserve" the pension.

Final point. A government backed DB pension plan is guaranteed cash money for the rest of your life from retirement until death. There is simply no other product that a person could buy that would give you that kind of certainty, even private company DB plans. It is an excellent benefit and good for them, but let's not pretend that there isn't significant value ascribed to that pension.

A DB pension is not infinite value though.

What if Person A makes 130k a year total comp? 130k is pretty standard (actually quite low) for most professionals with 10+ years experience in Calgary.

The base teaching salary is so non-competitive these days that the DB pension doesn't make up the difference.

My calculation is that a DB pension might be worth about 25% of your salary. So I'd definitely want to be person A at anything above 130k.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Slava

Apparently there is a deal in place?

https://globalnews.ca/news/11448318/...ance-minister/

I just saw that as well

Still needs to be voted on

[Major Major]

Calling this a deal is another gross mischaracterization by the government. Again. There is no deal until a vote happens. Anecdotally, teachers who will vote for this deal are about 0/100 by my own count, so ya.

In other news though, I hear Trump has a lot of deals.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Final point. A government backed DB pension plan is guaranteed cash money for the rest of your life from retirement until death. There is simply no other product that a person could buy that would give you that kind of certainty, even private company DB plans. It is an excellent benefit and good for them, but let's not pretend that there isn't significant value ascribed to that pension.

The guaranteed until death is particularly valuable to teachers, as given their demographics (female, university-educated, low rates of obesity and addiction) they typically have very long lifespans. The figure I’ve seen is that a female teacher starting her career today should expect to live to 94. If you’re financial planning for that kind of longevity, a guaranteed DB pension for life is an excellent security blanket.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Calling this a deal is another gross mischaracterization by the government. Again. There is no deal until a vote happens. Anecdotally, teachers who will vote for this deal are about 0/100 by my own count, so ya.

In other news though, I hear Trump has a lot of deals.

The government hasn't said that a deal is in place though. They have said the exact same thing as you. The talk about a tentative agreement and use the term "if ratified."

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Calling this a deal is another gross mischaracterization by the government. Again. There is no deal until a vote happens. Anecdotally, teachers who will vote for this deal are about 0/100 by my own count, so ya.

In other news though, I hear Trump has a lot of deals.

Yes, it still has to be ratified, but at the same time the province has reached an agreement with the union. I would think that the union is recommending it, and this isn't unilateral.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Regorium

What if Person A makes 130k a year total comp? 130k is pretty standard (actually quite low) for most professionals with 10+ years experience in Calgary.

The base teaching salary is so non-competitive these days that the DB pension doesn't make up the difference.

Only 10 per cent of Canadians earn $125k or higher.

The base teaching salary is non-competitive with doctors, lawyers, and some STEM professions. It’s pretty good compared to the median salary of social sciences ($56k) and humanities ($53k) graduates. It’s unlikely my teacher friends with degrees in Art History and Communications would be surpassing $100k in another job.

Teaching may become less attractive for students strong in STEM fields. But I expect it will continue to be an attractive option for those with undergraduate degrees in social sciences and humanities.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

The government hasn't said that a deal is in place though. They have said the exact same thing as you. The talk about a tentative agreement and use the term "if ratified."

Thank you I was replying to the apparently there is a deal in place post thinking that the gvm't was crowing about it.

[indes]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

Yep, I just read the new Memorandum of Agreement. Teachers will be voting on the from Sept. 27 to 29.

The deal is literally the same as the one we struck down earlier. 12% salary increase over 4 years and 3000 new teachers over 3 years. It's literally the exact same deal that teachers struck down.

All I can say at this moment is the schools I have a pulse on is pissed and intend to vote no. If that happens, then an Oct 6 strike is almost all but a certainty. But some teachers might chicken out, maybe that's what the government is banking on, or they want the strike to happen to keep this fight as ugly as possible.

If I'm following along correctly, the union signed a consent order so they couldn't negotiate any further on wages, hirings or class sizes/complexity and now they accepted the exact same deal that was previously offered? And they expect teachers to vote to ratify it...wtf is going on?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Regorium

A DB pension is not infinite value though.

What if Person A makes 130k a year total comp? 130k is pretty standard (actually quite low) for most professionals with 10+ years experience in Calgary.

The base teaching salary is so non-competitive these days that the DB pension doesn't make up the difference.

My calculation is that a DB pension might be worth about 25% of your salary. So I'd definitely want to be person A at anything above 130k.

The defined benefit pension is worth about 9% of their salary plus half of the underfunding.
https://www.atrf.com/funding-the-pla...ibution-rates/

The government currently is spending 9%. Teachers 11.5% over CPP lives and 8.5% below CPP maxes.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by indes

If I'm following along correctly, the union signed a consent order so they couldn't negotiate any further on wages, hirings or class sizes/complexity and now they accepted the exact same deal that was previously offered? And they expect teachers to vote to ratify it...wtf is going on?

Recall that TEBA's complaint to the Labor Board surrounding items the ATA said in internal communications to union members kicked this off. They picked a pretty generic thing to complain about, in my opinion, as a tactic to get the ATA to the table with a compliant third party overseeing the proceedings.

The resolution of that labor complaint was the consent order from the Labor Board that says there are apparently only 3 outstanding items.

Shortly after that labor board meeting, the head of the ATA negotiating team resigned.

My two cents? The ATA got outmaneuvered by the government, and are now boxed in. A vote by the union to turn down the proposal gives them the ammunition to continue negotiating for improved classroom supports, complexity issues, etc.

[The Fisher Account]

All this posturing and back and forth for.. a free COVID shot that is already covered under a teachers HSA?

[ma-skis.com]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

All this posturing and back and forth for.. a free COVID shot that is already covered under a teachers HSA?

Aren't those free in the rest of the country?

[Geraldsh]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

All this posturing and back and forth for.. a free COVID shot that is already covered under a teachers HSA?

Throwing in a free Covid shot on the end of the deal is like leaving a $10 tip on a $1000 meal.

[Fuzz]

I assume the vote is only happening because everyone is at an impasse, and the ATA knows teachers will vote it down. Then they can finally move on and assure the government that no, the membership will not support the same garbage deal they were offered earlier.

The Alberta Teachers’ Association also confirmed in a written statement that “a memorandum of agreement” has been reached between teachers and the government, but ATA president Jason Schilling also refused to provide any further details until a ratification vote takes place.

Schilling confirms teachers will be voting online starting at 8 a.m. Saturday, Sept. 27 until 5 p.m. on Monday, Sept. 29 and if they vote against accepting the proposed contract agreement, their threatened strike will go ahead starting on Oct. 6.

“Teachers do not take the decision before them lightly,” added Schilling. “They recognize what is on the line with this vote and remain committed to an outcome that prioritizes the future of our public education system.”

https://globalnews.ca/news/11448318/...ance-minister/

Sure doesn't sound like this isn't heading for a strike.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Only 10 per cent of Canadians earn $125k or higher..

Source for that please?