[GDT] Kraken @ Flames 7pm MT

[FBI]

I would also like to know who held the puck the most in the game.. Eye test says Parekh BY FAR.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Did they see that man play last season?

Anyone with that perspective would immediately lose all credibility with me permanently.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

I know Bahl lost a step after the injury he sustained when that no name player from Minnesota ran him behind the net, but until that point he was playing like an absolute beast and he was fine when he returned. Hoping the Bahl we get this season is the one we saw for the bulk of that campaign.

He was a hidden gem in NJ and the Devils were goofs to send him to us with #18 (Reschny) for a regressing Markstrom.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Hopefully just a rough game for Bahl


Many pundits and analytics guys saying we overpaid massively for him.

I wouldnt judge anyone with a contract or job security coming int the third ( of eight!) preseason game.

[prizefighterinferno]

Was at the game, weird to see Bahl and Parekh looking poor on the chart but it's all relative I guess. Thought they looked good as a pair.

Didn't think Parekh had a rough time away from the puck at all honestly. A little slow to his check on the first goal but thought it was more on Wolf, and even then not especially egregious. Just a quick spinning shot that got through. Made some nice reads, had a good stick, blocked a couple shots, laid a hit or two of note. Also played the most on the team, zone starts under 50%, ended a plus player. Could be worse!

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Kerins deserves a spot given the production with limited ice time in the NHL. Don't you want a forward that manages to score on minimal shifts? I think he is a diamond in the rough still and absolutely deserves a bigger sample size. Kirkland is fine as a 14th forward. As of right now I have the lineup as (and you can mix/match the top 12):

Huberdeau - Kadri - Coronato
Zary - Frost - Sharangovich
Coleman - Backlund - Farabee
Lomberg - *Pospisil* - Klapka
Kerins, Kirkland

*If you hate Pospisil at 4C, then have Lomberg - Backlund - Coleman as the 4th line with one of the LW/RW alternating with Backlund and Coleman (Coleman plays both sides) since they likely get more ice time than Lomberg. We're pretty cluttered at forward. If we have a rough year, I would think Coleman and Farabee would be a few people available at the deadline for picks. That is also assuming Farabee regains some sort of value.

I would play Kerins alongside Backlund and Coleman and move Farabee down to the 4th line. Depending on how Shaggy plays at the onset, I wouldn't be opposed to moving Kerins up with Frost and Zary and move him down with Backlund and Coleman. A 4th line of Lomberg, Pospisil and Farabee is pretty solid.

Kerins is a smart hockey player, seems to always be in the proper spot offensively and again I was pretty impressed with his positional play in all zones in last nights game. Playing with Backlund and Coleman allows him some space to use his offensive skills and not get burned with every mistake along the way.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

I would play Kerins alongside Backlund and Coleman and move Farabee down to the 4th line. Depending on how Shaggy plays at the onset, I wouldn't be opposed to moving Kerins up with Frost and Zary and move him down with Backlund and Coleman. A 4th line of Lomberg, Pospisil and Farabee is pretty solid.

Kerins is a smart hockey player, seems to always be in the proper spot offensively and again I was pretty impressed with his positional play in all zones in last nights game. Playing with Backlund and Coleman allows him some space to use his offensive skills and not get burned with every mistake along the way.

100% spot on with how I feel about Kerins. Feels like another player where you can mix and match (like Klapka and Pospisil) that provide a complimentary role and usually get in the right spots when trying to make a play happen.

[Wastedyouth]

Parehk just needs to make faster reads in the D zone. He is gonna find he is going to continue to take a pounding if he doesn't get to the puck faster, which happened in this game.

He has the wheels, he needs to use them better.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

By the eye test I thought Bahl looked good. Weird, I guess that's why we try to take that bias out!

Or, perhaps the stats are garbage.

I thought he looked pretty good too.

And I find these one-game player reports are all over the map and often quite contradictory to what we see (as Parekh was last night as well)

[EVERLAST]

Are we being serious here saying Bahl is awful playing with Parekh?
Who wouldn't look lost? Playing with a dynamic player like Zayne .

Bahl said in an interview he thinks Parekh is an unreal talent and so to learn his D partners tendencies he gets a game or whatever and NOPE he's just hot garbage and that old worn out rhetoric.

When this team and its pairings stick and they iron out wrinkles I think by Christmas certain people will need to admit the expectations they have were quite short sighted.
This team collapsed and posters here were buggering themselves when Bahl went down last year.....short memories or what?

On another topic ....what the ##### was Huberdeau doing throwing hits like that in preseason?
I'd have benched him ( green text) having a Sam Bennett moment in meaningless games trying to ??? I hope he can bring that when it matters this year ( not green text).

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Or, perhaps the stats are garbage.

I thought he looked pretty good too.

And I find these one-game player reports are all over the map and often quite contradictory to what we see (as Parekh was last night as well)

Or perhaps eyes are garbage (I don’t think that).

Stats just say what happened. Combined with other stats you might get a sense of how it happened.

With the “eye test” people are prone to over-focusing on one aspect or looking for certain things and ignoring others. It’s possible that a player looks great or sometimes “dangerous” but didn’t have a great or tangible positive impact. Like Edge metrics, sometimes a player looks slow or lazy, then you look at the stats and they can confirm whether he’s actually slow or lazy.

At the end of the day both are good. But writing stats off as garbage is like saying goals or goals against don’t matter as long as the team looks good. At the end of the day goals are the only things that matter. Bad goal, good goal, lucky, not lucky. The score is the same regardless.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

It was the most unsophisticated analysis based on a couple nice highlight goals that it probably doesn't need a data review.

Not sure pointing out they average 7 shoots outs a season qualifies as a data review.

Some serious touchiness on stats these days.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Kirkland is a PDO bender that never should have been signed. IMO.

Those shootout goals tho…

[Bandwagon Surfer]

I don't really care about the shootout or shootout points.

The way I see it the point is to win the cup. Since the playoffs do not have the shootout, that means winning without the shootout is what matters. I would rather focus on being a good enough team without the shootout. If a team is marginal enough that the shootout points are the difference between making the playoffs or not, then that team is not a contender, they are just first round fodder.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Putting in a more impactful player during 5 on 5 (and 3 on 3) could reduce reliance on shootouts, which is probably more meaningful to the Flames' performance.

Well a Kirkland replacement won't be playing 3 on 3...it is true though the Flames won 5 of 24 three on three overtimes they played in

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Or perhaps eyes are garbage (I don’t think that).

Stats just say what happened. Combined with other stats you might get a sense of how it happened.

With the “eye test” people are prone to over-focusing on one aspect or looking for certain things and ignoring others. It’s possible that a player looks great or sometimes “dangerous” but didn’t have a great or tangible positive impact. Like Edge metrics, sometimes a player looks slow or lazy, then you look at the stats and they can confirm whether he’s actually slow or lazy.

At the end of the day both are good. But writing stats off as garbage is like saying goals or goals against don’t matter as long as the team looks good. At the end of the day goals are the only things that matter. Bad goal, good goal, lucky, not lucky. The score is the same regardless.

Some players play more and harder minutes too...like Bahl and Zayne last night...they were over 8 minutes after the first period

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Or, perhaps the stats are garbage.

I thought he looked pretty good too.

And I find these one-game player reports are all over the map and often quite contradictory to what we see (as Parekh was last night as well)

The stats aren't garbage, it's more people either completely disregard them, or they use these stats solely to form an opinion. All these stats take other stats and watching the games to form an opinion.

I think people need to find a middle ground and use the stats as a guideline to form an opinion and it probably takes more digging to take the stats presented to us on here or the media to the next level. Sometimes you have to watch the game and trust what you see as well.

My fav was always when people said Mangiapane was a 1st line player because of his 5 on 5 GF per 60 mins said he was a star, and he just needed more ice to be a star. Then you watch the game and all you see if a very good depth guy who excels in his role but had 0 potential to be a 1st line player.

Tanev was another, terrible signing because his xGF% wasn't good and trending in the wrong direction. Steal of a signing and probably our best dman in his time here.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Or, perhaps the stats are garbage.



I thought he looked pretty good too.



And I find these one-game player reports are all over the map and often quite contradictory to what we see (as Parekh was last night as well)

Maybe Parekh would have showed better on the graphic if anyone he passed to managed to not bobble a pick that hit them right on the tape!

Bahl missed the eye test for me. He made a lot of bad reads that also had his partner scrambling.

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[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

The stats aren't garbage, it's more people either completely disregard them, or they use these stats solely to form an opinion. All these stats take other stats and watching the games to form an opinion.



I think people need to find a middle ground and use the stats as a guideline to form an opinion and it probably takes more digging to take the stats presented to us on here or the media to the next level. Sometimes you have to watch the game and trust what you see as well.



My fav was always when people said Mangiapane was a 1st line player because of his 5 on 5 GF per 60 mins said he was a star, and he just needed more ice to be a star. Then you watch the game and all you see if a very good depth guy who excels in his role but had 0 potential to be a 1st line player.



Tanev was another, terrible signing because his xGF% wasn't good and trending in the wrong direction. Steal of a signing and probably our best dman in his time here.

I agree, use the stats for what they are. It's an instant snapshot that never captures the entirety of the game. They aren't useless, but they aren't gospel either.

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[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Hockey-and_stuff

I agree, use the stats for what they are. It's an instant snapshot that never captures the entirety of the game. They aren't useless, but they aren't gospel either.

Sent from my SM-S931W using Tapatalk

Here is my theory why there is a disconnect between the stats and the people who watched the game and thinking Bahl and Parekh played well.

Seattle did not dress their best lineup. The one player/line that stands out from their lineup last night is Catton or Catton, Tolvanen and Marchment line.

Bahl and Parekh played the most minutes against Catton, they played very well against Catton and he is the guy that people would say is the biggest threat from last night's line up to score against the Flames.

Bahl and Parekh struggled more against the no names dressed last night

If you watch the game and you are out against some no name plug or AHL plug for a scoring chance against, it probably gets disregarded more than if a star player gets open. The plug likely did nothing with the chance.