Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Duruss]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/calgary/artic...ce-in-calgary/

A small protest happened in Calgary yesterday against ADAP. Far too few people to do much more than maybe boost awareness by a couple percent. The UCP is sticking with their boiler plate lies about how this will support agency amongst the disabled. Never a response to how the jobs don't exist.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by indes

So did the ATA just capitulate on class sizes and wages? Is that what I'm reading everywhere that they're only left to negotiate a top 1.5% increase or something?

It sure seems that way, which I think pissed off teachers, because the very next day we received this email from the ATA:

Yesterday, to resolve the government’s complaint of bad faith bargaining to the Alberta Labour Relations Board (ALRB), the Alberta Teachers’ Association (ATA) entered into a consent order with the Government of Alberta. A consent order is an order of the ALRB to resolve a complaint between a union and employer instead of it going to a hearing.

The consent order is not an agreement with respect to the outcome of bargaining.

The consent order affirms that the parties are still in disagreement on three specific issues: two involving teacher compensation and one concerning COVID-19 vaccination coverage….

The ATA remains committed to advocating for the classrooms that students and teachers deserve.

As always, our members have the final say in determining our path forward.

Some of my colleagues are fairly certain we’re going to strike, as this was not at all a reflection of what teachers wanted, but I can’t say I have a good pulse right now about the mood in schools. I really hope we vote no if classroom size and conditions don’t get changed.

[indes]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

It sure seems that way, which I think pissed off teachers, because the very next day we received this email from the ATA:







Some of my colleagues are fairly certain we’re going to strike, as this was not at all a reflection of what teachers wanted, but I can’t say I have a good pulse right now about the mood in schools. I really hope we vote no if classroom size and conditions don’t get changed.

Wow so teachers just got blindsided by their own team. Unreal.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

I work in O & G and don’t have anywhere near that kind of time off…

I am paid for 199 days as a teacher and my wife works 208 as an Engineer at a Calgary company.

5 weeks vacation, one flex day a month.

[BigThief]

I also know 200 teachers which help my argument

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

Some of my colleagues are fairly certain we’re going to strike, as this was not at all a reflection of what teachers wanted, but I can’t say I have a good pulse right now about the mood in schools. I really hope we vote no if classroom size and conditions don’t get changed.

I'm fairly certain teachers are going to strike, I don't think the needle is going to be moved by whatever deal is going to come our way this week. They're going to have to present something by mid-week if they want to beat the October 6th deadline, teachers need time to process it and a few days to vote. I expect something presented to teachers Tuesday-Wednesday and if it's turned down they're striking.

[CFO]

Originally Posted by BigThief

I also know 200 teachers which help my argument

This is going get ugly. Majority of parents in my kids classes have had enough with the public sector and the constant asks.

There is definately a huge decision on this.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by CFO

This is going get ugly. Majority of parents in my kids classes have had enough with the public sector and the constant asks.

There is definately a huge decision on this.

Teachers have received a 5.7% pay raise in the last 10 years. If any public sector is constantly asking, it’s the provincial government for constantly asking teachers to take a a 0% pay raise and no clauses on classroom size or complexity because the economy is tough. Enough is enough.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

Teachers have received a 5.7% pay raise in the last 10 years. If any public sector is constantly asking, it’s the provincial government for constantly asking teachers to take a a 0% pay raise and no clauses on classroom size or complexity because the economy is tough. Enough is enough.

Well, that is bad, but the last decade also had a couple significant issues for Alberta. That whole oil price crash started the decade and then Covid. I’m not suggesting they/you shouldn’t get raises, but just that the economic climate is a factor there as well.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

I work in O & G and don’t have anywhere near that kind of time off…

Do you have 6 years of post secondary education? How many people are under your charge? Do you only get paid for 10 months?

My friends in oil and gas get at least 4 weeks and usually more, when they even count their vacations, versus just "working from home".

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by indes

So did the ATA just capitulate on class sizes and wages? Is that what I'm reading everywhere that they're only left to negotiate a top 1.5% increase or something?

No, I do not think that this consent order has anything to do with the ATA capitulating at all. This is the government abusing the court system to try and take important issues off of the negotiation table.

Note: The consent order is NOT an agreement with respect to the outcome of bargaining.

The UCP is asserting that class size and complexity are not issues because they have committed to hiring teachers and building schools. However, what it does not acknowledge is that they are not going to hire enough teachers to fill all of the vacancies and fill the new schools. It also does not acknowledge that the UCP failed to put any of the school building into the actual budget.

Saying "I'll totally spend $8B on building schools" and then putting $0 in the budget to actually build schools is not a commitment, it is a lie.

So now if the teachers are locked into only talking about compensation and COVID shots then they need to adjust their ask to be huge. I would do something like this:
1) Teacher pay should be tied to the size of their class. Average class size of 24 kids can get paid $107K. If you want to make it 40 kids then math that out to $178,333. At least that way if teachers are being tasked with impossible room sizes they can get paid for the pain.

2) Make COVID vaccines mandatory for all teachers and students in order to make a safe environment for teachers to work in. Obvious exceptions for anyone who medically cannot get vaccinated (but those kids are probably long removed from the classroom anyway).

The UCP will do anything to avoid vaccines... maybe even staff schools to a reasonable level.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Do you have 6 years of post secondary education? How many people are under your charge? Do you only get paid for 10 months?

My friends in oil and gas get at least 4 weeks and usually more, when they even count their vacations, versus just "working from home".

20 year professional in O&G = 5 weeks vacation + 12 PTOs + sick days. Some companies give you the flexibility with the PTOs and some have them at prescribed days (Xmas, Summer Fridays, etc)

If someone else is not getting that, they are probably getting bent over by their employer. "We can only give you 3 weeks!!!!" lol

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

I work in O & G and don’t have anywhere near that kind of time off…

Yeah I should have said producers and 15-20 years experience. Service and EPC is not nearly as good.

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I worked oil and gas for a long time, and at a firm where I got 2 fridays off per month. As an early career professional I worked almost exactly the same number of days as my wife who was a teacher. But that was only because I bought two extra weeks of vacation using all my flex dollars (her benefits were great so we declined mine) and she taught summer school every year.

I assume that your income after buying those weeks was still above your wife?

[CFO]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

Teachers have received a 5.7% pay raise in the last 10 years. If any public sector is constantly asking, it’s the provincial government for constantly asking teachers to take a a 0% pay raise and no clauses on classroom size or complexity because the economy is tough. Enough is enough.

Actually many in oil & gas have taken 2 rollbacks in the last 10 years. Oil crash prior to COVID and then during COVID.

Did the public sector roll back wages at least 10% twice?

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by CFO

Actually many in oil & gas have taken 2 rollbacks in the last 10 years. Oil crash prior to COVID and then during COVID.

Did the public sector roll back wages at least 10% twice?

Also, there is no Layoffs in Teaching thread that gets bumped regularly. And why are people comparing teaching to working oil and gas sector? I see absolutely zero parallels.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by CFO

Actually many in oil & gas have taken 2 rollbacks in the last 10 years. Oil crash prior to COVID and then during COVID.

Did the public sector roll back wages at least 10% twice?

That’s such a strange comparison, one that I’ve never tried to make. I only brought up the wage thing because you claimed that public teachers are making “constant” demands; which is not true at all as evidenced by stagnant wages and working conditions with no threat of a strike until now. Rollbacks to oil and gas suck for sure and I empathize for those families; that doesn’t however mean teachers have been giving “constant” demands.

Also, it’s not a race to the bottom; when oil and gas sector workers were laid off teachers would buy food and snacks for kids out of their own pocket. We don’t need to draw a line between two professions as if problems with one means the other should have the same problems. It’d be strange to say that we’ve had no improvement in working conditions, so therefore, no one else should have improvement in working conditions either. We don’t have rollbacks because we are unionized; which is nice in some ways but also terrible in other ways. Each profession has its affordances and drawbacks. If you’re in oil and gas, you’ve chosen a profession that’s tied to a boom and bust cycle. And if you think being in the public sector and getting unionized is so lucrative for you, then go into teaching.

The conversation I’ve always try to move towards is about supporting students, that’s the central issue but you keep steering it back to wages. The Oil and Gas sector isn’t serving the same groups in the same way. Different profession different problems, but kids are more involved in one of them. I’d happily take the current deal on wage increases if there was something better for class size and complexity, and I know many other teachers feel the same way.

[CFO]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

That’s such a strange comparison, one that I’ve never tried to make. It’s not a race to the bottom; when oil and gas sector workers were laid off teachers would buy food and snacks for kids out of their own pocket.

The conversation I’ve always try to move towards is about supporting students. The Oil and Gas sector isn’t serving the same groups in the same way, but that doesn’t mean I want to demonize an entire sector of workers which I honestly feel like you’re doing.

I agree students are #1. But unfortunately - I don't believe that if you gave teachers a 10% raise a year - it's going to make them teach better.

[CFO]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Also, there is no Layoffs in Teaching thread that gets bumped regularly. And why are people comparing teaching to working oil and gas sector? I see absolutely zero parallels.

I've seen countless posts and articles of public sector versus private. I agree teachers should never be concerned with the private sector nor belly ache on $$ differences.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CFO

I agree students are #1. But unfortunately - I don't believe that if you gave teachers a 10% raise a year - it's going to make them teach better.

The reason you increase teacher pay is that we are starting to have teacher shortages. There aren’t always subs available right now which was unheard of pre-covid.

If you want to add even the 3000 teachers the government wants or the 6000 that would bring back down class sizes they need to be attracted to come here. That takes money.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by CFO

I've seen countless posts and articles of public sector versus private. I agree teachers should never be concerned with the private sector nor belly ache on $$ differences.

Yet you’ve literally just made those comparisons?