Mobile Data Rates in Canada

[mykalberta]

I assume those prices are without plans correct?

I can get a download plan on my Rogers and Telus Cell phone for less than 100$ a month.

This must be off plan charges - if thats the case then I have no problem with the fees. If you dont have enough time to go online and change your plan then you deserve to get screwed.

Also, I would be very surprised to see an Australia and Nz rates that much lower. The competition there cant be much more than it is here?

MYK

[ken0042]

MYK- my issue is with how these rates get added onto your bill. A few examples:

- I used to have a Star Tac phone and a cable to connect it to my laptop. Using a friend's dial up ISP account I could connect to the internet from anywhere I could get a cell signal. I used it for about a year; often when I was on call for work and wanted to go out. I could dial in from anywhere to reset a password. Then one day I see about $20 worth of charges on my bill. They suddenly decided that because those calls contained data; I should be billed differnetly. No notice; just a new charge.

- Same Star Tac phone- and the plan I signed up for had what was called "Surf Sampler." About a dozen sites I could visit for free. When Telus launched their "Spark" crap, they took away everybody's Surf Sampler but didn't notify anybody. I racked up $15 and had to call in twice to get it removed.

- When I got my new phone I tried the free 2 day trial of the GPS functions. Used it a lot over those 2 days. Got a bill for $25 worth of internet usage. I could see by the times that it was during the free trial of the GPS. I had to escallate that one to get somebody to agree with me as to what "free" meant.

[Barnes]

If any outside company can force one telco to lower prices(the others will follow), it's Apple. The iPhone will never come to Canada unless Rogers drops their data plans substaitially.

The day of cell phones may becoming to an end anyways. If Google buys the 700 mhz spectrum the telcos will be pooping in their pants.

Here's some background for those who don't know.
http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/07/22...sten-to-google

[Salt Water Cowboy #10]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

I assume those prices are without plans correct?

I can get a download plan on my Rogers and Telus Cell phone for less than 100$ a month.

This must be off plan charges - if thats the case then I have no problem with the fees. If you dont have enough time to go online and change your plan then you deserve to get screwed.

Also, I would be very surprised to see an Australia and Nz rates that much lower. The competition there cant be much more than it is here?

MYK

Dude, nobody deserves to get screwed. Some people don't realise that they are being charged for browsing the internet. I thought because I could do it on my phone that it was included, and that downloading information was where the charges came from. The price for a plan is fine. the tactics used if you don't have a plan are B.S. Do you work for a cell phone company? pricing could be cheaper but...

[photon]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

I assume those prices are without plans correct?

I can get a download plan on my Rogers and Telus Cell phone for less than 100$ a month.

This must be off plan charges - if thats the case then I have no problem with the fees. If you dont have enough time to go online and change your plan then you deserve to get screwed.

Also, I would be very surprised to see an Australia and Nz rates that much lower. The competition there cant be much more than it is here?

MYK

Exactly, the competition can't be much lower there, yet their rates are much lower. It's like we're being scammed here.

And yeah you can get download plans.. $60 for 1MB of data and 200 minutes on Rogers BB, that's awesome! It'd take what, 3 days for me to go through 1MB?

Even on Fido it's $25 for 3MB, or 200MB for $100, still a total ripoff.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by photon

Exactly, the competition can't be much lower there, yet their rates are much lower. It's like we're being scammed here.

And yeah you can get download plans.. $60 for 1MB of data and 200 minutes on Rogers BB, that's awesome! It'd take what, 3 days for me to go through 1MB?

Even on Fido it's $25 for 3MB, or 200MB for $100, still a total ripoff.

Part of the reason rates are higher here, (and this is just part of it,) is the area that the companies need to cover. Quite a fair amount of our operating expenses go into building up the network and converting it to digital from analog. You have a massive land area with few people spread all over but they all want perfect coverage everywhere... it gets pretty expensive to upgrade and maintain. Not to say that the companies in Canada aren't raking in the dough, but a lot of that gets reinvested into the network. It's not like the US where they have 40 companies trying to cover a much smaller landmass and maintain the network... it's pretty easy to divvy it up when there are so many companies that can contribute to it's maintainance. When there are now only three companies in Canada, it's a much larger portion of our operating expenditures.

[photon]

I don't know, we have a much bigger landmass but 90% of it isn't populated.

Someone new into the market could do like Fido did, just build in the major centres and go after 80% of the market.

Australia has similar issues too, large country, people clustered around small areas.

The operational costs here are likely higher, but like you say I still think they're taking advantage of the situation.

Maybe something like the iPhone, which is pretty dependent on lots of data transfer ability, will be enough to shift things; either Rogers comes out with new data plans when (if) they launch the iPhone forcing everyone else to compete, or eventually Telus or Bell launch a CDMA version that is supposedly in the cards and the same thing happens.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by photon

I don't know, we have a much bigger landmass but 90% of it isn't populated.

Someone new into the market could do like Fido did, just build in the major centres and go after 80% of the market.

Australia has similar issues too, large country, people clustered around small areas.

The operational costs here are likely higher, but like you say I still think they're taking advantage of the situation.

Maybe something like the iPhone, which is pretty dependent on lots of data transfer ability, will be enough to shift things; either Rogers comes out with new data plans when (if) they launch the iPhone forcing everyone else to compete, or eventually Telus or Bell launch a CDMA version that is supposedly in the cards and the same thing happens.

There`s a reason Fido had to be bought out though, they were losing money hand over fist with their `reasonable rates`.

Roger`s doesn`t want the IPhone. Rogers is hoping that it doesn`t do very well. Apple would force them to give up all their content and only allow IPhones to data transfer from a computer that uses Itunes. Super convenient, eh? Why would they need a lot of data transferability when the Iphone will only connect to a computer for downloads?

[arsenal]

Didn't apple say they where not going to release the CDMA version until all the GSM markets had been released if at all?

[photon]

You can do more with an iPhone than just download music.. Apple's whole plan for 3rd party apps involves going over the Internet.

The browser in it is very impressive (though I'm not an iPhone fan at all) as well.

There's a reason that iPhones are sold with a plan that has unlimited data.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by FireFly

There`s a reason Fido had to be bought out though, they were losing money hand over fist with their `reasonable rates`.

Roger`s doesn`t want the IPhone. Rogers is hoping that it doesn`t do very well. Apple would force them to give up all their content and only allow IPhones to data transfer from a computer that uses Itunes. Super convenient, eh? Why would they need a lot of data transferability when the Iphone will only connect to a computer for downloads?

If Roger's had any brains, they would bend over backwards for Apple. The time has come that companies like Microsoft(though they lack the foresight in most business units), Google and Apple with their massive amounts of cash on hand can replace cell phones in a couple of years by buying up the 700mhz spectrum and in keeping it neutral. Offering wireless network access and voip on a way better spectrum than cellphone cos, you can add Bell, Telus, Rogers to the growing list of companies with zero forsight for the future and have failed to do anything of interest in recent times. Netscape, IBM, AOL, Sony, Creative. Some pretty good company.

Open access and net neutrality are huge factors. Cellphone companies give us the exact opposite. I wouldn't miss them at all.

[STeeLy]

I am glad my current phone has built in WiFi so I can steal internet (like a previous poster said). However, without WiFi, I wouldn't go through the GSM network to access the internet (Yes, I am with either Fido or rogers, but its pretty much the same since rogers bought fido).

Not only the data rates are horrible, even the per minute rates are horrible. I have an England sim card that I use whenever I'm in England, I can call from anywhere in England to Calgary for cheaper than calling within Calgary. And both of these cards are prepaid.

But like people said, without competition, these rates are going to stay high for a long time.

[fredr123]

Montreal Gazette Editorial

The author talks about how we are lagging behind other countries in terms of cell phone usage. 58% seems low, especially compared to other countries where the statistics supposedly show that there are more phones than people. The solution, according to the author and others (Michael Geist) is to set aside some of the spectrum in an auction for newcomers. I wish this would happen but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[metal_geek]

My younger brother working in nothern alberta got himself a laptop and a wireless card so he could do internet stuff from camp. I told him to get the unlimited data to avoid the huge usage nightmare. So he did, turns out they "forgot" to credit his account for some "PROMO" and sent him a 14,000.00!!!!! cell bill... I still have the scan of it somewhere.. Needless to say, 1 call and several hours of "Speak to my manager" later they removed the charges. It's was a scary few hours for him though... a good eye opener.
________
Cocaine Rehab Forum

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by metal_geek

My younger brother working in nothern alberta got himself a laptop and a wireless card so he could do internet stuff from camp. I told him to get the unlimited data to avoid the huge usage nightmare. So he did, turns out they "forgot" to credit his account for some "PROMO" and sent him a 14,000.00!!!!! cell bill... I still have the scan of it somewhere.. Needless to say, 1 call and several hours of "Speak to my manager" later they removed the charges. It's was a scary few hours for him though... a good eye opener.

The last time I was in China I got nailed for browsing the internet. I was on for maybe an hour, sent some text messages, made a few calls, and was rewarded with a $700 phone bill the next month.

Can anyone elaborate on the wifi cell phones? That's pretty interesting. What phone and network are you using?

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Salt Water Cowboy #10

Dude, nobody deserves to get screwed. Some people don't realise that they are being charged for browsing the internet. I thought because I could do it on my phone that it was included, and that downloading information was where the charges came from. The price for a plan is fine. the tactics used if you don't have a plan are B.S. Do you work for a cell phone company? pricing could be cheaper but...

Screwed might not have been the right word. But if people dont read the clear pricing contracts that are availalbe online before they use a service that a for profit company is providing and they believe they got screwed, I dont feel sorry for them in the least.

Everyone knows the games they play, 3 free music downloads, spend 60 minutes looking for the song and the song is free but the time searching isnt. These arent new tactics, its the same principle as on demand transport pricing in the aviation world. If you are going online and dont have a plan and havent bothered to look up the pricing then its believed you need to do it in a rush and dont care what the pricing is.

Alot of buisness make their profit with on-demand services and its up to the consumer to take responsibility for his/her actions.

Also, of the countries listed, Australia is the only one that should be compared, it has a similar disribution of population over a similar land mass. Countries in Europe are no comparison with the operating environment in Canada.

MYK

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Screwed might not have been the right word. But if people dont read the clear pricing contracts that are availalbe online before they use a service that a for profit company is providing and they believe they got screwed, I dont feel sorry for them in the least.

I guess "clear" is a relative term. I'm not exactly a dummy but I have a hard time trying to figure price rates and what you can and can't do based on the information provided online by various cell phone companies. I know when I was trying to find the best rates for voice/data a week or so ago it made my head hurt. Of course, YMMV.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Screwed might not have been the right word. But if people dont read the clear pricing contracts that are availalbe online before they use a service that a for profit company is providing and they believe they got screwed, I dont feel sorry for them in the least.

The thing is; in my previous examples I received no notification that anything had changed. As a customer, am I obligated to scour their site each and every month to see if they have found a new way of pricing their options? On two of my examples it was a case of me doing what I had always been doing, and my telco deciding to change their billing structure.

What about the guy who uses the features on a once in a while basis, and doesn't know that it now costs $500 to do what he did 6 months ago for free.

[Barnes]

My favorite part of being a Bell customer is getting bills post marked after the due by date.

[Salt Water Cowboy #10]

^
or when you call customer service about the extra charges on your account and the CS rep. can't understand the billing process either. Simpler would be better and would save many customers grief in the end. Activation first for internet service would seem to make sense. But I guess they would rather weasel the money out of their customers...