American Politics 4.0 - Orangeyou Glad He’s Back?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

I removed the trans parts cause, as you said, "technically not gay people" so I don't think it's relevant.

The "God's perfect law" quote is also from that same Kirk/Rachel discussion. No, I don't think he was being sarcastic and saying God's law isn't perfect - I think he was simply saying you cannot cherry pick vague bible verses to support homosexuality when there is a very direct, irrefutable bible verse which states that it is not supported under God.

I personally, support homosexuality. I'm also an atheist. So Kirk's position that homosexuality is wrong because the bible says so, does not resonate with me. Reason I'm asking on this claim of "he advocated for the killing of gays" is because it's being repeated everywhere as justifcation (1 of them) for why his murder is a good thing - but I've yet to find where he's advocated for ever killing a gay person - I have though come across footage and quotes from him where he is welcoming and kind to many gay people.

But it is relevant.
Look I'll concede the on the stoning gays thing.
Let's not argue about his exact words and how they could be interpreted. I'll give you that one.

But the part about trans people that you omitted is an example where he was very clearly advocating violence against people.

I suppose you could argue maybe he meant segregation, but that isn't exactly a loving, inclusive stance.

That is a pretty clear allusion to, and a call to violence.

So sure, he didn't call for violence against one group, just a different one.

BTW that group, is the one that right wing people have pivoted to to scape goat and hate monger against since it's become a losing proposition to do it to gay people.
Every argument you hear about Trans people today (sexual predators, having an agenda to turn people into them, grooming children, etc, etc) are the same arguments used against gay people for decades.

They know they've lost that battle, so they've moved on to the next vulnerable group that they can demonize.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I have not seen anybody here say that it is ok to be murdered for debating. That is a straw man and literally nobody is taking that position

This both sides stuff is a false equivalency

Main stream messaging from the democratic and republican camps differ strikingly. Typically you see from the left commentary after any political violence condemning it. From the right, the instances of condemnation are fewer and selective.

The immediate attribution of this to the left as if it is representative of the left is wrong and more damaging than helpful

Again nobody is saying that murder for free speech is okay. And having said that, given the political climate, the love of guns, the deliberate polarization, the hateful rhetoric, and the systemic embrace of that hateful rhetoric, a lot of people are not surprised that something like this happens

It is not okay but it is not terribly surprising

There have been quotes about playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes. One may consider that as a risk when making a living monetizing hate in a tense society that is polarized and armed to the teeth

I don’t disagree with you there. The disappointing part is that incidents like this seem to cause people to double down on the divisive behaviour. At some point someone will have to take the lead on mending fences and collaborating or things will only get worse.

[Fuzz]

https://bsky.app/profile/youranoncen.../3lynplbfnfs2q


So does that mean Trump will give him a medal of honour? It must be so confusing to be far right.

[EldrickOnIce]

Yeah, the old hate the sin not the sinner shtick

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://bsky.app/profile/youranoncen.../3lynplbfnfs2q


So does that mean Trump will give him a medal of honour? It must be so confusing to be far right.

It'll still be calls for a public execution, and you know that.

[BigThief]

And no one will take back their comments about the left the last two days either.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I don’t disagree with you there. The disappointing part is that incidents like this seem to cause people to double down on the divisive behaviour. At some point someone will have to take the lead on mending fences and collaborating or things will only get worse.

Which is why we should condemn Kirk, and people like him, as strongly as we can. If you agree divisiveness is the problem, and I'm sorry to word it this, way, but you have to hive these people off from the conversation, not include them. They are very talented at using weasel methods to appear balanced and part of the conversation while they are quite clearly dividing groups to not be entitled to the same rights they are, based only on differences.

[puffnstuff]

https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lynlwxpjf22r

Q: My condolences on the loss of your friend Charlie Kirk. How are you holding up?
TRUMP: I think very good. And by the way, right there you see all the trucks. They just started construction of the new ballroom for the White House, which is something they've been trying to get for about 150 years.

Looks like trump has moved on because the shooter was demographically inconvenient

[KelVarnsen]

I guess Kirk was a good guy after all. We should all feel bad now.

[Looch City]

Should we hold a moment of silence on CP?

[Fuzz]

Well if we are going to move on from this, we should probably circle back to

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

I don’t want this to drag on, so I’ll just leave this here and hope anyone who believes he hated gay people and thought they should be killed, will take 4 mins to watch this as he speaks to someone at a public event who seemingly does hold those beliefs.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1197979402472046593

Why don’t you go to his twitter profile and search terms like “gay” “pride” or “homosexual” and tell me what you see from his posts in the six years since the one you’re holding up as evidence.

Come back and tell me what he believes and how kind and accepting he is.

Here’s one to start:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1798111943414448586

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I just wish the general population ignored these people. Sure they’re presenting the other side of the coin with their arguments, but once they get popular and they get their following they just seem to pander to that group and become obnoxious. It becomes their professional calling to troll the other side. Does anyone actually switch to the other side in all this? I just don’t see it. They’re all rally’s to get their side riled up. It’s happening more in Canada too. I do hope people can look at this nonsense and ignore those spewing rhetoric in politics. I’m starting to like Mark Carney more now despite the liberal title as he hasn’t pointed fingers and become an identity politician. I hope he keeps it that way.

Most of the general public is not interested in politics, do not follow it, do not care to understand the details. Before his death, most didn't know who he was. Even in this US Political thread, some have never heard him speak. It is a small segment of college aged adults that know of him as he tours around.

The Republicans, through Kirk and others, feel young men at universities are struggling and want to give them direction. So they have events and young men attend and listen. Now many here may say it's evil and disinformation but watch the video i posted earlier of just a normal event that was happening every day, not gotcha videos or headlines on social medial... Charlie Kirk destroyed blah blah blah. Watch a full show and judge for yourself. I mean at least these are solutions, even if you disagree. Where are the democrat activists, why are they not on college campuses?

[KelVarnsen]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Why don’t you go to his twitter profile and search terms like “gay” “pride” or “homosexual” and tell me what you see from his posts in the six years since the one you’re holding up as evidence.

Come back and tell me what he believes and how kind and accepting he is.

Here’s one to start:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1798111943414448586

But but that doesn't fit his BS narrative

[Cali Panthers Fan]

lol, the tiny hand is a nice touch.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

I guess Kirk was a good guy after all. We should all feel bad now.

Damn! You just switched sides! And here I just got convinced that him being murdered is actually a good thing for world.

We've just got the worst luck

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

You can get bullets engraved?

Is this something you can order online and get customized by filling out the window?

Do you take them to the little kiosk guy who also cuts keys in the shabbier shopping malls?

Hmmm is it a service I can sell on Etsy?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Given what we know about the suspect, over/under Sunday before this is out of the news cycle?

[KelVarnsen]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Damn! You just switched sides! And here I just got convinced that him being murdered is actually a good thing for world.

We've just got the worst luck

Oh trust me I am glad he is dead. I am not glad he was murdered.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Ah.. the No True Scotsman fallacy