[Trade] Habs trade Price and a 5th to Sharks for Gannon Laroque

[Scroopy Noopers]

I know it doesn’t matter, but this makes me sad. Also a sad reminder that he could still be playing…

[BigThief]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1964137249190400439

[Enoch Root]

Lousy deal for SJS - sure, they need to get to the floor, but surely they could acquire cap in more valuable ways than getting a 5th for Price.

There was hope that the value of cap space would improve again, with the new CBA changes, but they have just reset it very low

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Ped

Ok. Then why did Vegas trade for Shea Weber's contract?

To get rid of Dadonov's contract. Dadonov was not injured and couldn't be put on LTIR, and they needed to get his salary off the books. Since Weber was on LTIR, he didn't affect their working cap number one way or the other.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

To get rid of Dadonov's contract. Dadonov was not injured and couldn't be put on LTIR, and they needed to get his salary off the books. Since Weber was on LTIR, he didn't affect their working cap number one way or the other.

And also because they could put Weber on LTIR and exceed the cap.


https://puckpedia.com/salary-cap/LTIR

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Ped

And also because they could put Weber on LTIR and exceed the cap.


https://puckpedia.com/salary-cap/LTIR

NO.

They could have traded Dadonov for future considerations and achieved exactly the same result. Adding Weber allowed them to exceed the cap by the amount of Weber's salary, but also added Weber's salary to their cap figure.

Weber's cap hit is $7.86 million. I'll round off the other figures, since the exact numbers don't matter for the purpose of illustration. Suppose the Knights, without Dadonov, were right at the cap, and the cap was $80 million. Adding Weber on LTIR allows them to go over the cap by the amount of Weber's salary… but it ALSO adds Weber's salary to their cap hit.

Without Weber: $80 million cap hit, $80 million cap space, $0 remaining
With Weber: $87.86 million cap hit, $87.86 million cap space (with LTIR), $0 remaining

Weber's salary gets counted against the cap even when he is on LTIR. From the very link you gave me:

Despite the common misconception, LTIR does not remove a Cap Hit from a team’s overall Cap Hit, it just potentially allows the team to exceed the salary cap.

Whoever has Weber's contract at any given time still has the full amount of that contract counting against the cap.

The trade was Dadonov for Weber. Vegas was over the cap and had to get rid of a player. They could use LTIR to take on a contract that Montreal wanted to get rid of, so they did that to make the deal happen. Montreal could activate Dadonov using some of the extra cap space they gained by putting Carey Price on LTIR.

If adding an LTIR player created cap space out of nothing, as you seem to suggest, then the Knights could have added Weber for future considerations (relieving Montreal of having to pay him) and kept Dadonov. But it doesn't work that way.

[Ped]

I never said it did. I said you are allowed to go over the cap with the amount of the player's cap hit on LTIR I never said it erased their cap hit.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Ped

I never said it did. I said you are allowed to go over the cap with the amount of the player's cap hit on LTIR I never said it erased their cap hit.

You said Vegas acquired Weber so they could go over the cap with LTIR. But as I keep pointing out, they gained no benefit by acquiring Weber, because his salary used up the exact amount that they received in LTIR relief.

[the-rasta-masta]

Hughes has been a pretty shrewd GM for the Habs imo. Seems he is always making moves that are titled a bit to the Habs favour in value.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

Hughes has been a pretty shrewd GM for the Habs imo. Seems he is always making moves that are titled a bit to the Habs favour in value.

Yeah he has been pretty good so far. When the story came out that a 2nd round pick was on the table and he said there is no way he is making it. Naturally I thought that the cost would have been a 3rd. I wonder if there was a bit of a bidding war because that seems like quite the jump from 2nd to 5th.

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Yeah he has been pretty good so far. When the story came out that a 2nd round pick was on the table and he said there is no way he is making it. Naturally I thought that the cost would have been a 3rd. I wonder if there was a bit of a bidding war because that seems like quite the jump from 2nd to 5th.

He's of the new school of General Manager's that come from a Sports Management/Agent background. I'd be shocked if this grouping didn't make up the majority of GMs in a few years. It seems the NHL is starting to realize somebody with education around sports management and business might make a more qualified GM than a former player. I don't mean this to disparage against former players turned GMs (Conroy has been fantastic, although he does have college education to back it up), but I just see it being more likely owners will trust their billion dollar franchises to more of Hughes' type moving forward.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

If this Gannon has an undersized child in the future, will he name it Gannondwarf?

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

He's of the new school of General Manager's that come from a Sports Management/Agent background. I'd be shocked if this grouping didn't make up the majority of GMs in a few years. It seems the NHL is starting to realize somebody with education around sports management and business might make a more qualified GM than a former player. I don't mean this to disparage against former players turned GMs (Conroy has been fantastic, although he does have college education to back it up), but I just see it being more likely owners will trust their billion dollar franchises to more of Hughes' type moving forward.

I do agree that it has changed a lot because all the GMs have such a huge support network of carpologists, assistant GMs, or assistant to the assistant GM around them.

It has gone corporate and really boils down to how a GM manages the information they have, delegates duties for the group they have. Having communication skills and being able to read people has become more important than those goals you scored as a player. Conroy seems to have built up that business toolbox, but I think the negative he brings as a former player is he isn't as cutthroat with players. I know Vegas leans more to the cutthroat side, but I think players are overlooking that as long as they can get theirs.

[howard_the_duck]

I realize different times, etc. But this return resurfaces my PTSD of what a crap deal it was to giveaway Monahan and a 1st just for cap space.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I realize different times, etc. But this return resurfaces my PTSD of what a crap deal it was to giveaway Monahan and a 1st just for cap space.

The least traumatic way to look at it is to make the stretch that it was Monahan and a 1st for Kadri. Although he was signed as a UFA, if the entire league wasn't so cap-strapped at the time, his deal would have cost more than it did.

But given that he was dealing with chronic injuries that eventually needed surgery, it would have been better to just put Monahan on LTIR. Not sure whether they would have had to LTIR him during the playoffs, however, which would have been a difficult choice.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

The least traumatic way to look at it is to make the stretch that it was Monahan and a 1st for Kadri. Although he was signed as a UFA, if the entire league wasn't so cap-strapped at the time, his deal would have cost more than it did.

But given that he was dealing with chronic injuries that eventually needed surgery, it would have been better to just put Monahan on LTIR. Not sure whether they would have had to LTIR him during the playoffs, however, which would have been a difficult choice.

Wasn't Monahan ready to play at the start of season? He played the season opener and continued for two months. He was shut down after two months for injuries incurred during that year. So, LTIR was not possible or predictable.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

He's of the new school of General Manager's that come from a Sports Management/Agent background. I'd be shocked if this grouping didn't make up the majority of GMs in a few years. It seems the NHL is starting to realize somebody with education around sports management and business might make a more qualified GM than a former player. I don't mean this to disparage against former players turned GMs (Conroy has been fantastic, although he does have college education to back it up), but I just see it being more likely owners will trust their billion dollar franchises to more of Hughes' type moving forward.

If I'm a NCAA recruiter, I'm using this a carrot to get them out of the Major Junior.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

He's of the new school of General Manager's that come from a Sports Management/Agent background. I'd be shocked if this grouping didn't make up the majority of GMs in a few years. It seems the NHL is starting to realize somebody with education around sports management and business might make a more qualified GM than a former player. I don't mean this to disparage against former players turned GMs (Conroy has been fantastic, although he does have college education to back it up), but I just see it being more likely owners will trust their billion dollar franchises to more of Hughes' type moving forward.

A few years ago, I was talking to Rob Kerr about this very thing. We were discussing our respective industries – sports and publishing – and how they both have the same problem, that they're fishing for talent in a tiny pool and won't look outside it. For sports, it's ex-players. For publishing, it's trust-fund kiddies whose parents can afford to pay their bills to live in Manhattan while they work at unpaid internships. (I'm not kidding. For many years, that was the normal entry path into the editorial side of the business.)

Sports is getting its head out of its you-know and hiring qualified people from outside the magic circle of retired players. The big corporate publishers are circling the toilet bowl for the third time. I'm going to have fun watching while one business reinvents itself and the other one fades away. You couldn't ask for a better pair of contrasting case studies.