2025 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread

[SuperMatt18]

This is what tends to happen when your bullpen struggles, your starting staff starts to get in their own head too and causes issues.

The pitching staff as a whole needs a bit of a reset as it's spiraling right now.

Also don't fully get why they did the whole skip a turn in the rotation thing..feels like some of the arms could have actually used the extra day rest if they just went to a true 6 man rotation and maybe wouldn't have been the worst for this group

[Jiri Hrdina]

Thought that was gone

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

This is what tends to happen when your bullpen struggles, your starting staff starts to get in their own head too and causes issues.

Some of you will bend over backwards to make excuses for Berrios. This isn't the pen being #### and ####ing with his head. This is who Berrios is. The pen is awful but that's what makes Berrios an even bigger liability. No one is picking him up when he falls apart.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Lauer was playing with fire.

Regardless of how things go tonight, tomorrow is going to be a mess. Bieber is going to need to go really long. The starter isn’t giving you length and the bulk guy isn’t giving you bulk. Not setting themselves up well!

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Some of you will bend over backwards to make excuses for Berrios. This isn't the pen being #### and ####ing with his head. This is who Berrios is.

I’m as frustrated with Berrios as anyone but your schtick is getting beyond tired dude.

[Blaster86]

It's not a schtick. Berrios is a below average inning eating pitcher. Every game it's the same story with him. He cruises along until the wheels come off, and it's never a gentle collapse. It's three or four batters and one to four runs, every time at a minimum. I'm not frustrated with Berrios, he's cheeks and that is never changing. I'm frustrated that this organization hasn't done the right thing and moved on from him.


I genuinely don't understand how some of you guys still watch this guy pitch and continue to pretend like we're not seeing what we're seeing.

[Inferno]

More of that Varland please.

[ben voyonsdonc]

It’s absolutely your schtick. It’s simply not based in reality. He’s been an above average starter throughout his career…including most of this season.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I genuinely don't understand how some of you guys still watch this guy pitch and continue to pretend like we're not seeing what we're seeing.

Because up until a few months ago he wasn’t like this. Or last year. Or is it every start but it’s more than not, now. If he was that terrible he’d be DFAd like Francis.

Assuming no injury, he’s feeling the pressure of the team success.

Games of course are all important in September but if the bullpen can put together a good rest of this game and tomorrow against a non playoff team, the pen playing their way out of their slump, it’s good going into the Yanks series when the pressure is elevated.

Vlad barely got half way down the line the last ground out. Him getting as pumped as he is about sac flies and infield hits the last few days is somewhat odd. He needs a bit higher standard down the stretch and into the playoffs.

[ben voyonsdonc]

The Var-show never ends.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

including most of this season.

Just factually false.


https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savan...r-pitching-mlb


He's had two seasons with the Jays that he wasn't tire fire adjacent and in one of those he got pulled early in his play-off start because the manager had no faith in him. He is a below average inning eater better fit to take the pummelings on a rebuilding team than a middle rotation starter on a play-off team.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

It's not a schtick. Berrios is a below average inning eating pitcher. Every game it's the same story with him. He cruises along until the wheels come off, and it's never a gentle collapse. It's three or four batters and one to four runs, every time at a minimum. I'm not frustrated with Berrios, he's cheeks and that is never changing. I'm frustrated that this organization hasn't done the right thing and moved on from him.


I genuinely don't understand how some of you guys still watch this guy pitch and continue to pretend like we're not seeing what we're seeing.

Except no stats support what you are saying.

He's among the league leaders in quality starts every season he's been a Jay

He's a fine middle of the rotation guy, but the issue is it's a rotation that has lacked a true ace so people wanted him to be more.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Just factually false.


https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savan...r-pitching-mlb


He's had two seasons with the Jays that he wasn't tire fire adjacent and in one of those he got pulled early in his play-off start because the manager had no faith in him. He is a below average inning eater better fit to take the pummelings on a rebuilding team than a middle rotation starter on a play-off team.

He’s a 2.5 War pitcher each of the last 3 years

Which is fine(ish). Basically a 3/4 guy on a good team . Which is what he is .

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Except no stats support what you are saying.

He's among the league leaders in quality starts every season he's been a Jay

And below average in almost every pitching metric. You have one stat that can be affected by the team playing behind him. I have an entire page of blue.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Even with recent struggles, he’s 32nd in the league in ERA and 31st in WHIP. The team is 18-9 in his starts. Those are above average numbers for a starter.

[activeStick]

Feels like a while since the Jays have had a double play

[Jiri Hrdina]

France is a smart base runner
Slow as ####
But smart

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

Even with recent struggles, he’s 32nd in the league in ERA and 31st in WHIP. The team is 18-9 in his starts. Those are above average numbers for a starter.

Sweet, glad the team shows up for him. He looks like ####, he's butt pucker time when he's on the mound and the stats back that up.


He's get an average WAR of slightly above 2 but is below 2 if you only include full seasons with the Jays.


You guys sound like Mid 2000s Canucks fans arguing Cloutier is a fine starter because he wins 30 games a year and only elite goalies do that every season.


Both the eye test and the underlying metrics back that up. His one trait is that he can pitch a lot without needing much rest.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

And below average in almost every pitching metric. You have one stat that can be affected by the team playing behind him. I have an entire page of blue.

Prove it?

From what I see he's pretty much a middle of the rotation starter that can eat innings and pick up wins.

From 2022-2025

Innings Pitched: 706.2 (4th)
Wins: 48 (6th)
Quality Starts: 67 (5th)
WAR: 6.6 (65th)
WHIP: 1.25 (68th)
FIP: 4.42 (102nd)
ERA: 4.09 (77th)

There were 131 qualified pitchers and he's in the middle of the pack. He's a perfectly fine middle of the rotation starter.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Prove it?

Already linked the sea of blue.