The Home Improvement Thread

[puffnstuff]

We have wood burning with a log lighter, used it once in 10+ years.
It has a dozen battery powered faux candles in it sitting on the log grate.
Pondered electric fire and decided against it.

[Slava]

I’m pretty sure we want to switch from two hot water heaters to tankless. Can anyone here recommend a plumber/gas fitter, or does anyone here do that kind of work?

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by Slava

I’m pretty sure we want to switch from two hot water heaters to tankless. Can anyone here recommend a plumber/gas fitter, or does anyone here do that kind of work?

Curious how you made that decision. From everything I have read/heard tankless are not ready for prime time.

Also, does anyone have a heat pump water heater?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Titan2

Curious how you made that decision. From everything I have read/heard tankless are not ready for prime time.

Also, does anyone have a heat pump water heater?

I just think that the unlimited hot water would be amazing. I haven’t heard that there are issues, but maybe I’ve missed that?

[indes]

Originally Posted by Slava

I just think that the unlimited hot water would be amazing. I haven’t heard that there are issues, but maybe I’ve missed that?

It is amazing. We've got a navien in our house and have never had an issue, along with all the other houses in our neighbourhood - I don't know anyone who's had a problem with them.

[Bill Bumface]

Also a Navien here. Get a model with the buffer tank and there is basically no downsides vs. a traditional tank (until it breaks and costs a crap ton to fix, but that hasn't happened so far).

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Also a Navien here. Get a model with the buffer tank and there is basically no downsides vs. a traditional tank (until it breaks and costs a crap ton to fix, but that hasn't happened so far).

Yeah and of course when things break or go south it’s an issue. But the thing is, that’s not different from the traditional tank. I’ve got two right now and our hot water is lukewarm at best. It’s more than just annoying. I will say, it makes the shower quite a bit faster, and we’ve probably saved some money on water usage, but it’s not exactly ideal.

[Fuzz]

Yup, Navien with a buffer tank. Endless HW is great, and regaining so me floor space in the basement. There are two issues, one is I could see is the first HW of the morning takes longer, because the buffer has cooled. I give a quick blip of HW on the sink. This wakes the unit up, and by the time I'm in the shower it's got HW just as quick as a tank to the shower.


If this is an issue you can also add a recirculating loop that keeps your house HW lines full of HW at all times. The unit has everything it needs for this, you just add the external plumbing(and depending on your home, this could be the hard bit).


The second issue comes down to buying enough capacity. My home only has two people so we went with the lower end. If I have the DW, laundry and shower on the water flow slows, because the unit can do a certain temperature rise per GPM flow. A bigger unit can do more. When it's -30 and the inlet temperature is low, having just the DW and a shower can cause a bit lower flow, due to the unit needing to increase the water temperature more. So I'd just suggest if you want to avoid that, go with a bigger one. Mine is the 180A2. It does a 47.2°C rise which is a 5° inlet tempt to 52.2°C(126F) at 3.5GPM. If the inlet temp is 2°C, to get to the same temp the flow drops to 3.3GPM, so you can see how cold days reduces the output a bit. Make sure they use a PEX line sized properly. My installer didn't, and I had to have him fix that to get the output. Going from 1/2" copper to 1/2" PEX is a reduction in flow from 3.2 to 2.3 GPM. I was a bit irritated I had to point this out to him, as I am not a plumber.


Anyway, the biggest unit can do 4.6GPM (max flow of 3/4" PEX) ,and the mid 4.2 GPM at the 47.2 temp rise.


https://www.navieninc.com/products/npe-180a2


pipe flow chart:
http://s3.supplyhouse.com/product_ca...Rate-Chart.pdf

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

Yeah and of course when things break or go south it’s an issue. But the thing is, that’s not different from the traditional tank. I’ve got two right now and our hot water is lukewarm at best. It’s more than just annoying. I will say, it makes the shower quite a bit faster, and we’ve probably saved some money on water usage, but it’s not exactly ideal.

If the tanks aren't too old, you can probably buy some time with them. Probably broken dip tubes, which is a typical sign of not getting hot enough. Pretty simple fix for you or a plumber. If you open the drains(close the inlet first) and near the end of the draining start seeing plastic bits, those are dip tube pieces, and indicate they are broken. May as well do both, if the tanks are the same age and model.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If the tanks aren't too old, you can probably buy some time with them. Probably broken dip tubes, which is a typical sign of not getting hot enough. Pretty simple fix for you or a plumber. If you open the drains(close the inlet first) and near the end of the draining start seeing plastic bits, those are dip tube pieces, and indicate they are broken. May as well do both, if the tanks are the same age and model.

Yeah and that could well be the issue. They’re about 7/8 years old, and part of this is me regretting not doing the tankless at that time. I kind of talked myself out of it, but now that the hot water is an issue I think it’s time to revisit this.

[Fuzz]

Ya, they should have at least another 3-8 years left. I'd do the dip tubes and run them a bit longer. Tech always gets better in the future anyway.

[Bill Bumface]

For reference on size, I went with a Navien NPE-240A2 NG and We've gotten to laundry, dishwasher and a shower at the same time. Haven't yet tried a second simultaneous shower in that scenario to see if it holds up.

The other thing that was nice was I put in an outdoor hot water tap, and now when I clean out the hot tub I can fill it right up with cheap hot water and have it ready to go again right away.