Why not just install batteries in the home? I'm not sure the value of draining your EV to put power back into the grid when you can do the same thing with a stationary battery.
Also, maybe we need to tone it down with Level 2 chargers. I was provided a level 1 with my Ioniq 5 and that's all I use at home.
Yeah I was thinking more like moving the energy around and thinking more like finding a discharging station and get free parking/paid for discharging at an establishment. Might even make sense in people bringing power to tourist towns, so as to reduce strain on smaller grids, but in a home in a city... I don't get it unless there's a ton of idle, rarely used EVs.
The battery from car into grid article started sounding like a weird way to describe the electricity company momentarily stopping power provided to your home and using you car to power your home, or something.
Why not just install batteries in the home? I'm not sure the value of draining your EV to put power back into the grid when you can do the same thing with a stationary battery.
Also, maybe we need to tone it down with Level 2 chargers. I was provided a level 1 with my Ioniq 5 and that's all I use at home.
Cause that requires two very large batteries that aren't cheap (car, house) and we already have a big battery sitting there already.
You're already making do with level 1 which kind of illustrates the point, somebody with a level 2, how often do they *really* need a fully charged battery ready to go at 100% charge? Even my PHEV with not a massive battery has been sitting in the garage all week at 100% cause I've been biking all week. Why not use that in the evening and top up it back up off the solar panels during the day?
I know charge discharge cycling has improved, but I'm not sure it would be great for longevity if you did it every day. At 50% discharge you get 1300 cycles and lose 20% capacity. That's unde 4 years. I wouldn't want to lose my max capacity for a bit of a reduced bill. https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/one-simple-trick
Also, level 2 chargers are more efficient, so it will always cost you more to charge with level 1, particularly without a heated charging location in the winter.
I was chatting about this in the politics thread but it sounds like a big step has been taken toward a production solid state (sodium-ion) battery by the largest battery company in the world, CATL.
This could be a massive step forward for EVs and household battery walls as the cost of sodium (salt) is a tiny fraction of lithium and sodium is far, far more plentiful. With the first version of these batteries going into production in cars this year it will be interesting to see how quickly they make improvements from V1 to V2 to V5 and beyond.
This is massive for cold climate EVs as sodium handles the cold way better than lithium.
Note: the video calls out that CATL has been oddly quiet about this technology. Is it because the batteries are bogus? Are they protecting trade secrets to establish an industry advantage? Or are they try to avoid political backlash from knuckle draggers?
__________________
Last edited by Wolven; 08-23-2025 at 03:49 PM.
Reason: Figuring out youtube tags
Yes, level 2 are more efficient, but do we all need 40-50A service? I question that.
No, 30A is fine too. But most people don't have that, either, so if you are upgrading you may as well put a 50A in. There are also solutions cheaper than a full panel upgrade that can better handle load balancing on lower capacity main feeds with a lower install cost. If you spend 70k on an ev, it's not a stretch to add 1-2k for more efficient charging and other benefits.
I was chatting about this in the politics thread but it sounds like a big step has been taken toward a production solid state (sodium-ion) battery by the largest battery company in the world, CATL.
This could be a massive step forward for EVs and household battery walls as the cost of sodium (salt) is a tiny fraction of lithium and sodium is far, far more plentiful. With the first version of these batteries going into production in cars this year it will be interesting to see how quickly they make improvements from V1 to V2 to V5 and beyond.
This is massive for cold climate EVs as sodium handles the cold way better than lithium.
Note: the video calls out that CATL has been oddly quiet about this technology. Is it because the batteries are bogus? Are they protecting trade secrets to establish an industry advantage? Or are they try to avoid political backlash from knuckle draggers?
Can't watch that now, but I thought that chemistry wasn't well suited to o cars, but was great for stationary storage. Maybe they found a way around the issues?
Can't watch that now, but I thought that chemistry wasn't well suited to o cars, but was great for stationary storage. Maybe they found a way around the issues?
They are mass producing the sodium-ion batteries as Naxtra.
- Longer battery range
- Less degradation
- Better performance in cold
- No exploding in a ball of fire
- Sodium is easily available around the world
Apparently 6 automakers are going to put Naxtra batteries in 30 different 2026 models.
With this just being the first version of the battery, there is a lot of potential for these batteries to go from comparable to Lithium to vastly superior.
This is the kind of innovation I was hoping Canada would be leading going all of the way back to Ballard power fuel cell excitement ~20 years ago.
__________________
The Following User Says Thank You to Wolven For This Useful Post:
No, 30A is fine too. But most people don't have that, either, so if you are upgrading you may as well put a 50A in. There are also solutions cheaper than a full panel upgrade that can better handle load balancing on lower capacity main feeds with a lower install cost. If you spend 70k on an ev, it's not a stretch to add 1-2k for more efficient charging and other benefits.
Curious what the other benefits are?
This is all very basic results from google - Level 1 around 80% efficient vs. 90% level 2. 20,000 km per year costs about $500 in electricity (obviously myriad variables here), so we're probably talking about ~$50 a year difference
__________________
CP's 15th Most Annoying Poster! (who wasn't too cowardly to enter that super duper serious competition)
This is all very basic results from google - Level 1 around 80% efficient vs. 90% level 2. 20,000 km per year costs about $500 in electricity (obviously myriad variables here), so we're probably talking about ~$50 a year difference
Depending on the vehicle, but some can be used for home power backup. Faster charge for those times you do need it. Pre-warming(or cooling) of vehicle. Some won't even get enough mains power to do that, and will start drawing from the battery. They often integrate better with smart charging apps/systems. Safer, because you don't have a plug being plugged in and removed from the wall socket, which causes wear and potential fire issues over time. Given they draw the max for the circuit(well, 80%, I think), you are using it at it's higher end of service design. Over time, I'd definitely watch this, and take the outlet out and make sure the connectors weren't back stabbed, and the screws are tight. You also won't want anything else on that circuit.
I'm not saying it's not fine to do, and that everything I listed is a benefit for everyone in every vehicle. But once you buy an EV, you'll probably replace it with one. So it does make sense to just bite the bullet now vs later. Particularly if you do need more extensive service upgrades. Prices always go up, electrical codes can change increasing cost, and if you are the last one in your 'hood to upgrade, you may find the power company saying no.
As to your quick google efficiency, most of what I had found reflected that, but the caveat is that's for typical temperatures. In the extreme cold and heat the battery needs to be temperature conditioned to receive a charge, and this can use a lot of the 12A available, meaning say 50% goes to battery conditioning(6A), and 50% to charging. At 40A(50A circuit) 6A goes to heating and 34A goes to charging. The percentage difference is large. When you really get into it, you can find this info, but I don't know the exact numbers.
