The Legend of Sam Bennett

[FlamesAddiction]

I put most of the blame on Bennett. He couldn't adapt or elevate his game, and then played like he didn't want to be there at all. He played better once he got his own way, it's not a mystery and he doesn't belong on a pedestal.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I put most of the blame on Bennett. He couldn't adapt or elevate his game, and then played like he didn't want to be there at all. He played better once he got his own way, it's not a mystery and he doesn't belong on a pedestal.

He always elevated his game in the playoffs, which you can say about very few players. It was a skill he demonstrated to us, and has since made a career out of doing the same thing.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Ba'alzamon

People love to blame Gulutzan, but Hartley was the one who shunted him to the wing for no apparent reason. And it wasn't just to play him with Backlund, either. Bennett spent an excruciating 19 game stretch on Markus Granlund's wing that year. That was one of the worst forward lines I've ever seen.

Bennett was 19 under Hartley, it's not a travesty to play a young kid on the wing to get the feel of things, at the time Colborne was playing good as the 3rd line C so Bennett played wing mostly on the Backlund line and ended up with 18 goals, it was dummy Gulutzan who plopped him in a bottom 6 role on the wing for a couple of years and he didn't get close to 18 goals again until he was traded to Florida.

The combination of idiots Gulutzan and Treliving(who allowed it to happen) drove Bennett out of Calgary period.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I literally gave the example in my post. The Pens.

I can't think of a single example of a Cup-winning team with a Backlund-qualty shutdown guy as a top-six center.

Oilers had 99/11 as their top Cs. McTavish was their shutdown guy. We had Nieuwy and Killer as our top two with Otto as our shutdown. Islanders had Brent Sutter as their shut down on the third line.

Those aren't the only examples, just ones that immediately come to mind.

McTavish, Otto, Sutter, Staal, etc. All Cup-winning 3rd line shutdown Cs on teams with two scoring lines above them. That's the category that Backlund should have been in. He's the Otto behind Neiuwendyk and Gilmour -- the Staal behind Crosby and Malkin -- not the Forsberg behind Sakic or Fedorov behind Yzerman.

Almost all Cup-winning teams in the modern game have a top-notch 2-way C in their top six.

Barkov
Point
Bergeron
Toews
O’Reilly
Kopitar

The Pens are an exception, but you can get away with that if your top 2 centres are Crosby and Malkin.

Opposing coaches would be licking their chops at the matchup opportunities of the Flames top two lines centred by Monahan and Bennett.

[GioforPM]

I know that lots of coaches game planned the Flames to get their top line away from Backlund. And when they did, it ended up being guys like Ryan who checked them, not ideal at all.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Almost all Cup-winning teams in the modern game have a top-notch 2-way C in their top six.

Barkov
Point
Bergeron
Toews
O’Reilly
Kopitar

The Pens are an exception, but you can get away with that if your top 2 centres are Crosby and Malkin.

Opposing coaches would be licking their chops at the matchup opportunities of the Flames top two lines centred by Monahan and Bennett.

And in their first cup they had Staal who fit that bill.

And in their next two cup runs they had Bonino on the third line who was still a pretty good 2 way 3rd line center.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

I and many others were outraged at the return and Bennett was the Flames best player in his last 2 playoffs with the team.

The Flames seemed to do everything they could to sabotage Bennett's value.

After leading the team in the playoffs for two years in a row, they staple him back to the 4th line. They gave Bennett a brief period in the top 6, just before the trade, to showcase him for a trade, and he goes PPG in those last 6 games in Calgary.

Horrendous asset management.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Almost all Cup-winning teams in the modern game have a top-notch 2-way C in their top six.

Barkov
Point
Bergeron
Toews
O’Reilly
Kopitar

The Pens are an exception, but you can get away with that if your top 2 centres are Crosby and Malkin.

Opposing coaches would be licking their chops at the matchup opportunities of the Flames top two lines centred by Monahan and Bennett.

IMO, the elite two-way C is the player you want to build around. I mean sure, if you can get a McDavid or a MacKinnon, then great, but they are rare lottery tickets. Solid two-way Cs are assets that can be had. From that list, you have:

1 3rd round pick
2 2nd round picks
11th overall
2 lottery picks

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Bennett was 19 under Hartley, it's not a travesty to play a young kid on the wing to get the feel of things, at the time Colborne was playing good as the 3rd line C so Bennett played wing mostly on the Backlund line and ended up with 18 goals, it was dummy Gulutzan who plopped him in a bottom 6 role on the wing for a couple of years and he didn't get close to 18 goals again until he was traded to Florida.

The combination of idiots Gulutzan and Treliving(who allowed it to happen) drove Bennett out of Calgary period.

Gulutzan, Peters, and Ward all have to share the blame but I don't think it's all Gulutzan's fault

Gulutzan played Bennett at center probably more than Peters and Ward did.

In 16-17 under Gulutzan Bennett's most common lines were:

Brouwer - Bennett - Versteeg
Chiasson - Bennett - Gaudreau
Chiasson - Bennett - Versteeg

So he was primarily deployed as a center - the issue was that Flames team had terrible forward depth. Brouwer was terrible, and the Flames played Gaudreau-Monahan, and Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik together pretty consistently and it left poor linemates for Bennett who at the time was still learning how to be an NHL center.

The next season they called up Jankowski and the issue was Bennett and him actually did have success as the third line for the Flames.

Bennett - Jankowski - Hathaway
Bennett - Jankowski - Jagr
Gaudreau - Monahan - Bennett

Those were the three most common lines for Bennett in 17-18.

So Gulutzan gets some blame - but I think a big part of it too was the Flames roster construction was just so poor at the time that with Backlund and Monahan as your top 2 centers (which at the time was probably justified) it just left poor options for Bennett to play with as center on the third line, and he found some success on the wing with Jankowski since it allowed them to have a more talented third line than if you played Bennett at 3rd line C and Janko at 4th line C.

Part of it is the Flames always prioritizing attempting to win over development. Gulutzan knew he needed to win to save his job - and playing Bennett and Jankowski together (53.5% xGF that season) gave them a better chance of winning than playing them separately

Then that carried over into 18-19 with Peters where you had Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm, Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik as a top 6 that led the Flames to first place in the Western conference, and it left Bennett-Jankowski-Neal as your third line (Bennett did get some time with Tkachuk and Backlund when Frolik was hurt I think).

One thing that really killed Bennett was Troy Brouwer and James Neal - they were meant to be the wingers that would add the depth to help him develop as an NHL center, and both were absolute busts.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I put most of the blame on Bennett. He couldn't adapt or elevate his game, and then played like he didn't want to be there at all. He played better once he got his own way, it's not a mystery and he doesn't belong on a pedestal.

Thankfully our GM completely disagrees with you and has expressed a desire to learn and grow from their mishandling of Bennett.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Gulutzan, Peters, and Ward all have to share the blame but I don't think it's all Gulutzan's fault

Gulutzan played Bennett at center probably more than Peters and Ward did.

In 16-17 under Gulutzan Bennett's most common lines were:

Brouwer - Bennett - Versteeg
Chiasson - Bennett - Gaudreau
Chiasson - Bennett - Versteeg

So he was primarily deployed as a center - the issue was that Flames team had terrible forward depth. Brouwer was terrible, and the Flames played Gaudreau-Monahan, and Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik together pretty consistently and it left poor linemates for Bennett who at the time was still learning how to be an NHL center.

The next season they called up Jankowski and the issue was Bennett and him actually did have success as the third line for the Flames.

Bennett - Jankowski - Hathaway
Bennett - Jankowski - Jagr
Gaudreau - Monahan - Bennett

Those were the three most common lines for Bennett in 17-18.

So Gulutzan gets some blame - but I think a big part of it too was the Flames roster construction was just so poor at the time that with Backlund and Monahan as your top 2 centers (which at the time was probably justified) it just left poor options for Bennett to play with as center on the third line, and he found some success on the wing with Jankowski since it allowed them to have a more talented third line than if you played Bennett at 3rd line C and Janko at 4th line C.

Part of it is the Flames always prioritizing attempting to win over development. Gulutzan knew he needed to win to save his job - and playing Bennett and Jankowski together (53.5% xGF that season) gave them a better chance of winning than playing them separately

Then that carried over into 18-19 with Peters where you had Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm, Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik as a top 6 that led the Flames to first place in the Western conference, and it left Bennett-Jankowski-Neal as your third line (Bennett did get some time with Tkachuk and Backlund when Frolik was hurt I think).

One thing that really killed Bennett was Troy Brouwer and James Neal - they were meant to be the wingers that would add the depth to help him develop as an NHL center, and both were absolute busts.

This is a lot of what I was saying. Janko-Bennett-Neal made sense on paper. Your two future stars and a vet scorer. But Janko wasn't that good and Neal sucked ass.

Back then Bennett didn't look like a centre. If you look at posts from those years people thought he had tunnel vision, and just made poor decisions (toe drags all the time). He could have stood some centre time in the A maybe.

[Vinny01]

I go back to the summer of 2018 as one of the best and worst summers for Treliving. He was able to adjust the window by shipping out 25 year old Hamilton and 27 year old Ferland and a prospect who would never sign here for a 23 and 21 year old who were both 5th overall picks. In many ways that is the best exact type of trade the flames would love to make today to add 2 pieces that age with that type of pedigree.

The big error came that summer when Neal was given that monster contract. Had the Flames preserved the cap space the flexibility they would have had that next summer when Tkachuk needed a new deal and also a spot they could have used for Bennett.

Peters choosing Jankowski as a center and signing Ryan were also mistakes when the team should have been focused on Monahan/Bennett/Lindholm as centers with Backlund. Lindy could have still started on the wing.

Anyway this org should have hired Sutter that summer instead of Peters and kept the flexibility that would have come had they not given Neal that contract. Derek Ryan was a fine flame but he wasn’t needed then either.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I go back to the summer of 2018 as one of the best and worst summers for Treliving. He was able to adjust the window by shipping out 25 year old Hamilton and 27 year old Ferland and a prospect who would never sign here for a 23 and 21 year old who were both 5th overall picks. In many ways that is the best exact type of trade the flames would love to make today to add 2 pieces that age with that type of pedigree.

The big error came that summer when Neal was given that monster contract. Had the Flames preserved the cap space the flexibility they would have had that next summer when Tkachuk needed a new deal and also a spot they could have used for Bennett.

Peters choosing Jankowski as a center and signing Ryan were also mistakes when the team should have been focused on Monahan/Bennett/Lindholm as centers with Backlund. Lindy could have still started on the wing.

Anyway this org should have hired Sutter that summer instead of Peters and kept the flexibility that would have come had they not given Neal that contract. Derek Ryan was a fine flame but he wasn’t needed then either.

Peters doesn't have that option if the Flames had Teravainen/Hertl/Wilson/Vasilevsky instead of Janko.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Peters doesn't have that option if the Flames had Teravainen/Hertl/Wilson/Vasilevsky instead of Janko.

Come on man, this thread already pisses me off enough.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I know that lots of coaches game planned the Flames to get their top line away from Backlund. And when they did, it ended up being guys like Ryan who checked them, not ideal at all.

Well, I will concede that Derek Ryan is not Barkov or Bergeron. So, uh, sure… not “ideal”

But Derek Ryan was actually very reliable and consistent here and quite frankly was a plus player each of the 3 seasons he was here

So yeah technically you said not ideal. It implies that it was worse than it actually was in reality.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Well, I will concede that Derek Ryan is not Barkov or Bergeron. So, uh, sure… not “ideal”

But Derek Ryan was actually very reliable and consistent here and quite frankly was a plus player each of the 3 seasons he was here

So yeah technically you said not ideal. It implies that it was worse than it actually was in reality.

Except Ryan was really a 4C and his wingers were not terrific defensively. Back then your two way guys were Backlund and Toffoli. I think the goal was to shelter Bennett, Jankowski and Neal and they'd thrive offensively.

I think the coaching decided to try and shelter as opposed to getting them to sink or swim up the lineup.

[Ba'alzamon]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Except Ryan was really a 4C and his wingers were not terrific defensively. Back then your two way guys were Backlund and Toffoli. I think the goal was to shelter Bennett, Jankowski and Neal and they'd thrive offensively.

I think the coaching decided to try and shelter as opposed to getting them to sink or swim up the lineup.

Jankowski and Ryan were both gone by the time Toffoli got here. Jankowski left after the 2019/20 season, and Ryan left after 2020/2021. Toffoli wasn't traded for until February 2022.