The Legend of Sam Bennett

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cobra

That is why #19 left. He knew teams need to play on the edge.

He has 2 cups and Flames have not made the playoffs since he left.

He hasn't pulled near the crap he did when he was here.

And 19 left because he wanted to go to the US and have fun in the sun, tax free.

His playing on the edge was a factor in the Flames loss to the Oilers.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

How many offensive zone hooking and interference penalties does he take in Florida? How goals have been called back on him for goalie interference in Florida?

It's not the same Bennett. There was literally NO outrage on here when he got traded!

He still takes his fair share of o-zone penalties in Florida. In the playoffs, he's had plenty of issues with crease violations and bumping into goalies. He hasn't changed a whole lot.

The only thing that is different is that he was allowed to play center, so he has to be defensively responsible and cover behind guys. That keeps him from getting too deep in the zone, meaning he isn't the first guy on the forecheck, and potentially taking a penalty by trying to get the puck.

It's amazing what players can do when you let them play their natural position.

And for the record, the only reason I wasn't upset when he got traded is because he went to my other team. It was a win/win for me. You can check the records.

There is no getting around the fact that Flames coaching and management ####ed up his development. That's plain as day at this point. The only thing anyone should be wondering is if there are still any issues with this current management group and coaching staff. I tend to believe that they've learned their lessons by now, but you never know...

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

If he had even 1/4 of this IQ when he was a Flame, he would still be here. Too bad he only showed this in 40 of the 400 games he played here.

lol. Holy ####, multiple cups and a conn smythe and these guys will never get it

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He hasn't pulled near the crap he did when he was here.

And 19 left because he wanted to go to the US and have fun in the sun, tax free.

His playing on the edge was a factor in the Flames loss to the Oilers.

19 left because he saw where the team would be for the last 3 years. Out of the playoffs.
Team should have been built around him and Sam.
Instead BT went with Swedes and vets....had no vision of how great they would be.
But go ahead justify away....terrible take.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

lol. Holy ####, multiple cups and a conn smythe and these guys will never get it

lol. how many playoff series did he win as a Flame?

Where was your outrage post when he was traded? Sure some people were disappointed when he was traded and hoped for the best of him.

No one was out there with their pitchforks wanting Brad's head on a silver plate when Bennett was traded.

[Strange Brew]

I’ll give Conroy credit. Anytime I’ve heard him talk about Bennett he pretty much takes the L as an organization on blowing it. I remember Steinberg once even trying to soften it by saying that the player needs to force their hand by playing well and Conroy disagreed by emphasizing how the organization needs to put him in the best spot to succeed.

If I looked back at some of my Bennett comments I’m sure I look like an idiot and absolutely under rated him. No “I told you so” from me, but I did argue with those who tried to diminish his playoff performance here.

Some people though just need to accept the Flames absolutely mishandled Bennett’s development and lost a Conn Smythe winner, Team Canada player for next to nothing. Excusable if it is a late blooming late round pick. Highest pick in team history? Huge blunder.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

lol. how many playoff series did he win as a Flame?

Where was your outrage post when he was traded? Sure some people were disappointed when he was traded and hoped for the best of him.

No one was out there with their pitchforks wanting Brad's head on a silver plate when Bennett was traded.

He couldn’t win the Flames series here. He wasn’t allowed to play center. Simple stuff.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

lol. how many playoff series did he win as a Flame?

Where was your outrage post when he was traded? Sure some people were disappointed when he was traded and hoped for the best of him.

No one was out there with their pitchforks wanting Brad's head on a silver plate when Bennett was traded.

lol

Was he ever deployed top 6 C on the Flames, which is … y’know … why he was drafted 4 OA?

And outrage posts are a qualifier of what exactly? I like talking to grownups

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

lol. how many playoff series did he win as a Flame?

Where was your outrage post when he was traded? Sure some people were disappointed when he was traded and hoped for the best of him.

No one was out there with their pitchforks wanting Brad's head on a silver plate when Bennett was traded.

I and many others were outraged at the return and Bennett was the Flames best player in his last 2 playoffs with the team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cobra

19 left because he saw where the team would be for the last 3 years. Out of the playoffs.
Team should have been built around him and Sam.
Instead BT went with Swedes and vets....had no vision of how great they would be.
But go ahead justify away....terrible take.

Nothing in that “terrible take” was untrue. Go look at his list of teams he would sign with. It’s not consistent with your retcon history.

Treliving went with “Swedes and vets”? Good Lord.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

lol

Was he ever deployed top 6 C on the Flames, which is … y’know … why he was drafted 4 OA?

And outrage posts are a qualifier of what exactly? I like talking to grownups

It was a bad numbers game here. The problem with him at centre was that he wasn’t as good as Monahan or (later) Lindholm, and couldn’t handle shutdown like Backlund. So if they were trying to win it wasn’t optimal.

He has a much better situation in Fla, where Barkov has a great two way game.

And it would just be disingenuous to ignore the fact he improved his game after being traded. Some of this was on the player, like was said above.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It was a bad numbers game here. The problem with him at centre was that he wasn’t as good as Monahan or (later) Lindholm, and couldn’t handle shutdown like Backlund. So if they were trying to win it wasn’t optimal.

He has a much better situation in Fla, where Barkov has a great two way game.

Was he not as good as Monahan or Lindholm or was he never given the same opportunity as them as a centre? Monahan had two year head start on Bennett and Lindholm came from another organization where he was playing big minutes despite underwhelming production.

and it would just be disingenuous to ignore the fact he improved his game after being traded. Some of this was on the player, like was said above.

I think it is disingenuous to imply that his game changed after being traded, actually. Even during his conn smythe run he didn't do anything he wasn't already doing in 2020 for Geoff Ward who for some inexplicably reason doghouse'd him. But playing with Tkachuk and Vergaehge versus Lucic and Dube makes him appear better.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He hasn't pulled near the crap he did when he was here.

And 19 left because he wanted to go to the US and have fun in the sun, tax free.

His playing on the edge was a factor in the Flames loss to the Oilers.

His list of teams won 5 of the last 7 Stanley Cups. They were all in their window or about to enter their window when he chose the teams he would accept a trade to.


He went to places where he had higher chances of winning. The only team on his list that hadn't recently won a Cup was Carolina but they've looked good and had a couple of lengthy cup runs recently. He could have put that team over. The Blues may have already fallen out of their contention window at the time of the trade but St. Louis get the home town pass.


The list for anyone who can't remember:
St. Louis
Tampa Bay
Colorado
Vegas
Florida
Carolina

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Buff

His list of teams won 5 of the last 7 Stanley Cups. They were all in their window or about to enter their window when he chose the teams he would accept a trade to.


He went to places where he had higher chances of winning. The only team on his list that hadn't recently won a Cup was Carolina but they've looked good and had a couple of lengthy cup runs recently. He could have put that team over. The Blues may have already fallen out of their contention window at the time of the trade but St. Louis get the home town pass.


The list for anyone who can't remember:
St. Louis
Tampa Bay
Colorado
Vegas
Florida
Carolina

No tax except St. Louis and Colorado. No doubt he wanted a team with success. But he wasn’t staying here because of success or no success. It was about money, Covid and fun. It wasn’t like relatively successful Canadian teams (or ones who looked like it) were in contention.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Was he not as good as Monahan or Lindholm or was he never given the same opportunity as them as a centre? Monahan had two year head start on Bennett and Lindholm came from another organization where he was playing big minutes despite underwhelming production.



I think it is disingenuous to imply that his game changed after being traded, actually. Even during his conn smythe run he didn't do anything he wasn't already doing in 2020 for Geoff Ward who for some inexplicably reason doghouse'd him. But playing with Tkachuk and Vergaehge versus Lucic and Dube makes him appear better.

No, he didn’t play anywhere near as well as Monahan or Lindholm. And yes, his game has changed.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I really value size in a lineup. Trying to get size + skill is incredibly difficult, right? You normally have to draft in the top 5, or at least 10, especially as a center. I have said this over and over - compete really closes the gap. Bennett isn't undersized at all, but he isn't a huge guy. He plays very physical, and to have this in your top 6 is very helpful, and difficult to find.



Anyway, we can argue about what happened to Bennett in Calgary. I am just happy to hear that the current GM stated that Bennnett should have been given more opportunity here, and that not everything is fair, and that sometimes a young player just needs more runway, deserved or not. When you think of it this way, it is practically absurd that the Flames invested a 4th round pick's value into him, but didn't invest the time and patience necessary to develop it (didn't put him at center, and developed him, accepted the growing pains there). Florida did, and they got the pay-off. To me, it is that simple.



Bennett in Calgary became a player who didn't have confidence in himself any longer, and the coaching staff didn't have confidence in himself either. It should have never gotten that way, but I also do think that under Sutter, he probably would have experienced a turn-around here. He was a complete Sutter-type of player, after all.

[Strange Brew]

The same people that want to continually defend the Flames handling of Bennett also seem to want to poke holes in Tkachuk's game while he was here.

Did he play perfectly in every playoff game here? Of course not. He was a 24 year old elite superstar with a game tailor made for playoff success when he was dealt. His subsequent success was totally predictable.


It's just kind of shocking to see the energy devoted to these two arguments by some.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I really value size in a lineup. Trying to get size + skill is incredibly difficult, right? You normally have to draft in the top 5, or at least 10, especially as a center. I have said this over and over - compete really closes the gap. Bennett isn't undersized at all, but he isn't a huge guy. He plays very physical, and to have this in your top 6 is very helpful, and difficult to find.



Anyway, we can argue about what happened to Bennett in Calgary. I am just happy to hear that the current GM stated that Bennnett should have been given more opportunity here, and that not everything is fair, and that sometimes a young player just needs more runway, deserved or not. When you think of it this way, it is practically absurd that the Flames invested a 4th round pick's value into him, but didn't invest the time and patience necessary to develop it (didn't put him at center, and developed him, accepted the growing pains there). Florida did, and they got the pay-off. To me, it is that simple.



Bennett in Calgary became a player who didn't have confidence in himself any longer, and the coaching staff didn't have confidence in himself either. It should have never gotten that way, but I also do think that under Sutter, he probably would have experienced a turn-around here. He was a complete Sutter-type of player, after all.

Bennett was gritty but not really a Sutter ideal player. Sutter likes checkers. He loved guys like Backlund and Toffoli who check up and down the ice (listen to him talk about checking versus hitting). And he hated penalty takers.

But Sutter may have improved Bennett’s play in that area, and Bennett may have had a big turnaround here - who knows. It may have happened under Huska, who seems to bring out the best in a lot of players.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No, he didn’t play anywhere near as well as Monahan or Lindholm. And yes, his game has changed.

agree to disagree I guess. He's played in Florida about as well as he played as far back as spring 2017 against the Ducks when he was lining up against Kesler all playoffs and probably our best player. That the Flames thought the logical progression after that qas to put him on Mark Jankowski's wing is not a position I would defend

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

agree to disagree I guess. He's played in Florida about as well as he played as far back as spring 2017 against the Ducks when he was lining up against Kesler all playoffs and probably our best player. That the Flames thought the logical progression after that qas to put him on Mark Jankowski's wing is not a position I would defend

Who is defending it? He probably should have stayed with Backlund.

Though I can see the logic in trying to develop him and Jankowski as the top forwards together. And they had their new supposedly 20 goal every year guy with him. It did t pan out but you can see the thinking.

I think he is way better in Fla- he skates better and uses linemates a hell of a lot better.