[News] The Athletic releases list of worst contracts (we’re #1!)

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

How many Stanley cups does the Panthers win without Sam Bennett?

He hasn't won any under this contract though...I mean if he does and even wins another conn smythe or close its a difference conversation.

The Kane and Toews contracts looked bad and turned out bad

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by dino7c

He hasn't won any under this contract though...I mean if he does and even wins another conn smythe or close its a difference conversation.

The Kane and Toews contracts looked bad and turned out bad

680 points in 604 games under that contract was...bad?

Bennett's contract might be bad when his body starts giving out because of physical play but it's "only" eight million, this isn't star or even 1st line money anymore.

[FireGilbert]

Don’t get the hate for Huberdeau’s contract. Yeah he should be a $7M 2nd liner but I’ll take that over an overpaid defenceman or plenty of multi million dollar forwards stuck on the 4th line.

Also seemed to rebound last year getting 2 goals away from his career high and would have far more assists if the Flames had any good finishers.

[Snuffleupagus]

Even if Bennett earned another $1.25m per I would prefer that contract over Nurse's. That writer is on glue.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Even if Bennett earned another $1.25m per I would prefer that contract over Nurse's. That writer is on glue.

Indeed. And to paraphrase a line from Roy...Bennett would have difficulty hearing the complaints with his Cup Rings in his ears...

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by BigThief

680 points in 604 games under that contract was...bad?

Bennett's contract might be bad when his body starts giving out because of physical play but it's "only" eight million, this isn't star or even 1st line money anymore.

After they signed those contracts the team was never a contender again...Toews scoring 52,58,58 points for 10.5M, sound familiar? (especially considering the cap) was obviously not good value. Sure Kane performed better but the team was bad.

You trade that for two cups obvioiusly but that isn't the conversation...will the contract be good?...this contract not his last.
That being said I am not agreeing with them, to have Bennett there over Nurse is laughable...just saying I get why the Bennett contract might not age well, guy has already struggled to stay healthy the way he plays. It shouldn't be on the list now though over Nurse and Pete, probably others.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Petterson also played 64 games to Huberdeaus 81

I will never understand why being a piece of glass is often stated as an advantage when it comes to contracts/stats...yeah he's 95 pounds, he is gonna get hurt

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

Don’t get the hate for Huberdeau’s contract. Yeah he should be a $7M 2nd liner but I’ll take that over an overpaid defenceman or plenty of multi million dollar forwards stuck on the 4th line.

Also seemed to rebound last year getting 2 goals away from his career high and would have far more assists if the Flames had any good finishers.

You don’t understand why people hate Huberdeau’s contract?

That’s crazy. He has underperformed for 3 years now

He has been the highest paid on a lottery team. It would be hard not to hate it.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

You don’t understand why people hate Huberdeau’s contract?

That’s crazy. He has underperformed for 3 years now

He has been the highest paid on a lottery team. It would be hard not to hate it.

I mean they had a 96 point season...he was overpaid but decent this year, like 3M overpaid on a team with 20M in cap space

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by dino7c

After they signed those contracts the team was never a contender again...Toews scoring 52,58,58 points for 10.5M, sound familiar? (especially considering the cap) was obviously not good value. Sure Kane performed better but the team was bad.

And you attribute not being a contender to Patrick Kane being a star player earning his (large) contract? I'm not defending the Toews contract, he's always been so grossly overrated.

You need star players to win the cup, you need high salary players. The Hawks not being able to reload, or draft anyone else in his time there, or continually lose trades involving Branden Saad don't fall at his feet.

[dino7c]

The entire point is that they didn't win after the contracts...yes it was more Toews but they were a package deal, 21M when the cap was much lower killed their team and many knew it would.

I don't think Bennett should be on this list but his last seasons playoffs and two cups aren't really a factor because they were on the old deal. What he does moving forward decides if its a good deal or not. If the Panthers let Bennett walk the league wouldn't take the cups back. Oilers would trade Nurse for Bennett in a second, so would the Canucks with Pete...he shouldn't be on the list....yet, but COULD be down the road.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The entire point is that they didn't win after the contracts...yes it was more Toews but they were a package deal, 21M when the cap was much lower killed their team and many knew it would.

It's also a fan driven business, can you imagine the backlash had they let them walk after winning two cups.

Winning cups gets you paid.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

It's also a fan driven business, can you imagine the backlash had they let them walk after winning two cups.

Winning cups gets you paid.

never saying they shouldn't have signed him...I'm talking in the context of this list. There have been a ton of bad contracts given out after teams win cups as a "reward" they still end up being bad contracts by themselves

again, he shouldn't be on it IMO, especially with guys like Nurse out there...like its laughable.

[Rhett44]

If a player was a major factor in helping us win multiple cups, I would not care what we paid him. I still stand by the Toews and Kane contracts (and now Bennett regardless of what happens) are all well worth it.

Either way, I don't think Huberdeau deserves to be at the top of this list.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

The thing is Huberdeau and his contract aren't hurting the flames given that they're a botton 3 spending team, and he's providing valuable leadership for a young group.

A guy like Nurse and his unjustified AAV (even at the time it was signed) is absolutely hurting his team on multiple fronts (play and albatross cap hit).

But sure, let's put the Conn Smyth winner in there over him.

Huberdeau is actually helping the team tank because he's providing so little value relative to his cap hit. And he'll help the team more in this regard every year of his contract.

It's actually the exact player you want in a rebuild.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Huberdeau is actually helping the team tank because he's providing so little value relative to his cap hit. And he'll help the team more in this regard every year of his contract.

It's actually the exact player you want in a rebuild.

96 points and a 16th place finish isn’t “helping the tank”

He didn’t produce to his expected level but he was one of the 6? best players on the team last season

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Can you point to some analytics models that capture chemistry and character? If not, does that mean they're all flawed?

First of all, a lack of good models is not a supporting argument for the bad models.

To your point about chemistry and character - yes, they are extremely difficult to quantify, which brings us to two points:

1) almost all hockey analytics models are going to struggle because so much of the game is dependent on those difficult to quantify items

2) what the model is claiming to do, matters. If the purpose of the model is to determine and rank skating ability, and that is all it is claiming to quantify, the possibility of it doing so is much higher, because we can isolate and measure things like skating speed. And - importantly - the model is only claiming to do that. When a model claims 'best at this' or worst at that' it is going to have to pass a much higher bar, and measure many more variables in order to be a useful model.

An example in hockey is xGF and xGA - these numbers suggest that the rankings provide insight into who the best and worst players are, offensively and defensively. However, the number of uncontrollable and unquantifiable variables are so large, and the game is so inter-dependendent on all 10 players that are on the ice, that building a model that accurately quantifies what is attempting to be quantified, becomes exceedingly difficult.

In a much more simple example, if you're going to list the worst contracts in the NHL, things like playoff performance would be something you might not want to simply ignore.

[Robbob]

I agree playoff performance and impact on the cap teams cap. As others have mentioned, the Nurse contract has handicapped the oilers through their entire window. Bennett took less than market value to help the team. Even Huberdeau has value to the Flames in the sense he is helping them get to the cap floor. Obviously that isn't a recipe for success, but in the next couple years it has no negative impact for the Flames.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I will never understand why being a piece of glass is often stated as an advantage when it comes to contracts/stats...yeah he's 95 pounds, he is gonna get hurt

I don’t recall anyone saying it’s an advantage, but there is an entire segment of analytics based on games played or per 60 minute metrics that have a ton of value. While Petterson is still behind Huberdeau in points per game, Petterson is still young enough to have a rebound year(s). I’d bet if there was a vote Huberdeau for Petterson it would be a landslide yes vote to accept the trade.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I don’t recall anyone saying it’s an advantage, but there is an entire segment of analytics based on games played or per 60 minute metrics that have a ton of value. While Petterson is still behind Huberdeau in points per game, Petterson is still young enough to have a rebound year(s). I’d bet if there was a vote Huberdeau for Petterson it would be a landslide yes vote to accept the trade.

Pettersson is also a selfish and entitled brat. The Canucks had to dismantle the dressing room trading away their best forward because of this. I wouldn't want that guy anywhere near my team.

Huberdeau on the other hand is a good teammate, doing whatever it takes to support the team. He basically reinvented himself last year and the kids always mention his name as a guy they can turn to for support. Hes always taken accountability for his play, always speaks with the media and has never once sulked or put blame somewhere else for his struggles.

Locker room chemistry is a big part of hockey. We have a good one. In my opinion, one of the biggest reasons this team that was supposed to be bottom of the league put up 96 points last year. They all bought in and played hard for eachother.