MF YYC Politics - there, I mega did it

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

1. 4th and 5th Street don't both need bike lanes. The city picked 5th over fourth. Makes sense to me.

The city also picked 12th over 10th.

2. 10 ave would be an alternative to 12 ave and would probably be better for cyclists and motorists. Yes, would lose a bit of parking of 10 ave, but could optimize traffic down 12 street better. Slower vehicle traffic speeds on 10 ave make it more cyclist friendly imo.

The speed limits on 10th and 12th are the same. If the vehicle speed feels faster it's because 12th is more optimized for through travel, which is also better for cyclists. 10th also isn’t more residential than 12th. 14th and 15th is working so well the city is blowing them up to make better lanes.
And what are you trying to optimize vehicle traffic on 12th to? There’s already less volume on it than there was pre-pandemic. The goal isn’t to have more vehicles travelling on it. What does optimal mean in this case?

4. If you had cycle infrastructure on 10 ave instead of 12 ave, then you can do cycle infrastructure on.7th Street or 9 street instead of 8th Street. And have it connect to underpass at 8th Street via 10 avenue SW.

The high traffic point on 8th is the underpass, so if you're building it anyway, what's the justification for diverting the cycle lanes after they cross it? You're now creating disruption on two streets instead of one, to the benefit of neither drivers or cyclists. What’s being optimized?

5. Fair point about 5A street. I was thinking as an alternative to a cycle track on 5 Street to south of 17 ave. You could go 5A to Cliff to 25 to river pathway. But you don't really need cycle infrastructure on those quiet streets.

How did you plan on getting people from 5th to 5A and from 25th to the River Pathway? Again, what’s being optimized with this proposal?

[GullFoss]

Twelfth is faster than 10th because it's multiple lanes of one way traffic. It's the same rationale the city used for wanting to make 2nd Street and 5th street one way in Mission.

Meanwhile, 10th is safer than 12th for cyclists because there's fewer cross intersections to get hit by a turning vehicle. And the slower vehicle speed makes it safer too.

Do you work for the city?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Twelfth is faster than 10th because it's multiple lanes of one way traffic. It's the same rationale the city used for wanting to make 2nd Street and 5th street one way in Mission.

Meanwhile, 10th is safer than 12th for cyclists because there's fewer cross intersections to get hit by a turning vehicle. And the slower vehicle speed makes it safer too.

Do you work for the city?

10th is littered with driveways.

12th has about 18 (+/- depending on how you count two driveways cutting side by side) from 14th to Macleod. Plus 14 cross roads (almost all controlled with signals).

The north side of 10th has 34 driveways. Plus 6 cross roads. You would hope to close a bunch of those when designing the bike lanes, but you're probably not getting to a lower conflict number than 12th.

Driveways are probably more dangerous than road crossings - especially controlled crossings.


I'm not sure if 10th would have been 2-way on the north side, or 1-way on each curb (in which case EB gets all the road crossings anyways)? 2-way bike lane on one side of a 2-way road is terrible.

10th also terminates at 4th St SE. With tight crappy ramps down to the underpass. The way the lanes on 12th ended was never great, but at least it's not a dead end, and should be improved when the road is rebuilt.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Twelfth is faster than 10th because it's multiple lanes of one way traffic. It's the same rationale the city used for wanting to make 2nd Street and 5th street one way in Mission.

The city was looking to reduce speeds on 2nd and 5th. The rationale for one-way was because they'd plan on going down to one permanent travel lane and have one lane be an off-peak parking lane. Instead 2nd remained a two-way street at the expense of off-peak parking. Faster was the opposite of the rationale.

Meanwhile, 10th is safer than 12th for cyclists because there's fewer cross intersections to get hit by a turning vehicle. And the slower vehicle speed makes it safer too.

Cross, signal-controlled intersections are a lot safer than what the north side of 10th has going on. As pointed out there are a lot more uncontrolled interaction points on 10th than on 12th.

Do you work for the city?

No. Do you?