Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

So Danielle, you changed the law to make it easier for separatists to force a referendum.

Then, when those separatists demand a question that may not be (read: definitely isn't) constitutional, you get upset that the law is being applied as written, BY YOUR GOVERNMENT, and complain that they separation question shouldn't be slowed down.

You know, for someone who says you don't support separation, you sure seem to be doing as much as you can to get it to a referendum. And you sure seem to be trying your best to be helpful to the people advocating the thing you say you're against.

The stupid thing is Smith promised that any question would be constitutional and respect treaty rights, so it will need to heavily wordsmithed regardless. Smith just wants to get in initiated so they can substitute their own question, which they have probably already written. But it means 177,000 people will signup not for the final question, not that they care of course.

[Reggie Dunlop]

The whole point is to drag out the separation issue as long as possible in order to rankle and frustrate the populace.

[Duruss]

https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/...t-not-disabled

Again if you still support the UCP you are a vile person.

[puffnstuff]

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...endum-petition

Elections Alberta approves petition seeking referendum on Alberta remaining in Canada
The petition begins the 90-day signature collection period which requires 293,976 signatures to be submitted to Elections Alberta by Oct. 28 for the initiative to be successful.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Can we have a competing petition where we get 293,977 signatures, and then the referendum doesn't happen?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Can we have a competing petition where we get 293,977 signatures, and then the referendum doesn't happen?

It would probably be less work to just go for a recall petition and get rid of the idiot who is driving the bus on this non-sense to distract from their party’s failings in other areas.

[puffnstuff]

Or in a land of fairy tales and make-believe where the seperatists dont exist aided by a premier putting her thumb on the scale for them...sure...we dont this petition

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...endum-petition

Elections Alberta approves petition seeking referendum on Alberta remaining in Canada
The petition begins the 90-day signature collection period which requires 293,976 signatures to be submitted to Elections Alberta by Oct. 28 for the initiative to be successful.

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Can we have a competing petition where we get 293,977 signatures, and then the referendum doesn't happen?

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

It would probably be less work to just go for a recall petition and get rid of the idiot who is driving the bus on this non-sense to distract from their party’s failings in other areas.

This is a good petition, it is to stay in Canada. Organized by Thomas Lukaszuk.

Importance here is if this one is approved first and gets to a referendum (and passes) then IIRC the law states there cannot be another referendum on the subject for five years.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

This is a good petition, it is to stay in Canada. Organized by Thomas Lukaszuk.

Importance here is if this one is approved first and gets to a referendum (and passes) then IIRC the law states there cannot be another referendum on the subject for five years.

I still stand by what I said.

[Torture]

Glad to see this nonsense getting some press coverage. Want to buy cases of wine direct from a winery in BC? There's a bunch of extra new fees - ~$4/litre + 5-15% depending on the price of the bottle. Thanks UCP. Rest of the country is working to drop interprovincial trade barriers and we're busy erecting new ones.

Three months after Alberta's new fees on wine were introduced, B.C. wineries are starting to feel the pinch as the amount of lost sales add up — that's despite a trade deal between the provinces that allows Albertans to buy directly from B.C. wine producers.

The fees come at a time when governments are looking to reduce trade barriers between provinces due to U.S. President's Donald Trump's ongoing threats of tariffs. Alberta, in particular, often boasts about leading the way on improving trade.

"We could be doing a lot more business," said Ron Kubek, the owner and CEO of Lightning Rock Winery in Summerland, B.C., who estimates Alberta's fees on a $30 bottle add about an extra 30 per cent to the price.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...-tax-1.7596265

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Torture

Glad to see this nonsense getting some press coverage. Want to buy cases of wine direct from a winery in BC? There's a bunch of extra new fees - ~$4/litre + 5-15% depending on the price of the bottle. Thanks UCP. Rest of the country is working to drop interprovincial trade barriers and we're busy erecting new ones.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...-tax-1.7596265

These aren't interprovincial trade barriers though because the April 1 fees/taxes apply to all wine regardless of origin. It is a blanket policy.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

These aren't interprovincial trade barriers though because the April 1 fees/taxes apply to all wine regardless of origin. It is a blanket policy.

It's a tax, not a policy. And the sliding scale serves to disadvantage Canadian wines. it's also a sliding percentage scale, which makes it even dumber.

Spoiler!

[Torture]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

These aren't interprovincial trade barriers though because the April 1 fees/taxes apply to all wine regardless of origin. It is a blanket policy.

Sure, it's not directly targeted at "wine from BC" but in practice, it is a new barrier.
Albertans used to be able to buy directly from BC wineries and we've been able to do that for years. UCP shut that down because AGLC wasn't getting a cut. Then they came to this solution and celebrated 'we eliminated a trade barrier' (that we imposed) by adding this fee. So the net effect is that buying BC wine now costs 30%+ more. Technically an interprovincial trade barrier? Maybe not. But practically, it will lead to less interprovincial trade so it might as well be.

There's essentially 0 Canadian wine at the price-points they're talking about so in reality, it serves as an additional barrier while allowing them to say that 'technically' we have the freest trade ever.

Here's a better summary: https://www.biv.com/news/retail-manu...wdown-10400663

[PepsiFree]

“Interprovincial trade barriers are ok as long as they apply to everyone that isn’t Alberta” - UCP supporters

[WideReceiver]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Can we have a competing petition where we get 293,977 signatures, and then the referendum doesn't happen?

I’ll be door knocking to collect signatures but that’d be great.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Torture

Technically an interprovincial trade barrier? Maybe not. But practically, it will lead to less interprovincial trade so it might as well be.

Here's a better summary: https://www.biv.com/news/retail-manu...wdown-10400663

It's not even a question of whether or not it is a trade barrier as per your source:

Vancouver lawyer and Harris & Co. partner Shea Coulson represented B.C. wineries and others at the Supreme Court of Canada in that case, which released a judgment in 2018.

He told BIV yesterday that the Comeau case upheld that provinces have jurisdiction over alcohol distribution and related taxes and mark-ups, as long as the provincial mark-ups are not meant to be a tariff barrier that could be unconstitutional.

The Alberta government’s plan to levy its new ad valorem taxes on all grape wines from all over the world is an argument that the new tax is not a targeted tariff barrier, Coulson said.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

It's not even a question of whether or not it is a trade barrier as per your source:

Does this replace any existing taxes, or is every bottle of wine from outside Alberta (I.e. every bottle of wine) going to cost at least the $4 extra plus the sliding scale percentages?

Answered my own question. Existing flat fee is $3, now going to $4 and change, with the new sliding amounts added on depending on price

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Does this replace any existing taxes, or is every bottle of wine from outside Alberta (I.e. every bottle of wine) going to cost at least the $4 extra plus the sliding scale percentages?

Every bottle was already taxed at a flat rate prior to April 1. That flat tax increased a bit and in addition a new sliding tax on the value of the wine was introduced. This is akin to the luxury tax that was introduced in Canada not long ago on products such as cars. Every new vehicle sold in Canada is subject to GST and now cars sold with a price over $100,000 are subject to an additional tax.


Edit: Also, with these tax/fee changes it is not like Alberta is doing something that other provinces aren't already doing. For example, BC also has a graduated taxation scheme. For wine, they have a mark-up applied on the first $11.75/L and an additional mark-up above $11.75/L. For spirits there is base mark-up on the first $21/L with three more tiers after that as the cost per litre increases.

[woob]

I mean, the smart move here would be to exempt all Canadian wines, in the interest of promoting buy Canadian and strengthening national trade, would it not? Keep it on International wines, if you like, but remove Canadian wines.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by woob

I mean, the smart move here would be to exempt all Canadian wines, in the interest of promoting buy Canadian and strengthening national trade, would it not? Keep it on International wines, if you like, but remove Canadian wines.

And this is kind of my point. Is it technically a trade barrier? No, it applies to everyone. But it's a new requirement because for the past 10+ years Albertans have been able to buy direct from BC wineries and these taxes weren't applied. A loophole maybe, but one the Government was certainly aware of. And arguably, the product never sat in an AGLC warehouse so there's no real reason for it to have the same tax as product shipped from (insert country) to AGLC warehouse and then out to a liquor store.

So last year the UCP said 'no more shipping direct from wineries to Albertans' while we review. Then they brought this in and took a victory lap saying 'woohoo, we removed trade barriers by allowing BC to ship directly to Alberta consumers BTW we're going to put this fee on everybody, please applaud us for free trade'.

In reality, their free trade allows us to do something you could already do, minus the short period when they put a stop to it. But they added a 30% price increase because AGLC has to get their share even though the product never touches AGLC's hands.

Net result, it's much more costly to buy Canadian wine than it was a year ago.

Every bottle was already taxed at a flat rate prior to April 1. That flat tax increased a bit and in addition a new sliding tax on the value of the wine was introduced. This is akin to the luxury tax that was introduced in Canada not long ago on products such as cars. Every new vehicle sold in Canada is subject to GST and now cars sold with a price over $100,000 are subject to an additional tax.

Ahh yes, except the tax starts at bottles of wine that cost more than $15 and goes up from there. (with the percentage also going up as the price goes up so it's a double wammy because the neat thing about percentages, is they already go up as value goes up. There's no need to increase them as value goes up. ) So it's more like adjusting the GST rate on all cars where a honda civic starts at 5%, a Rav4 goes to 10%, and Porches have a 15% tax.

But even then, we're not talking about a luxury tax that starts at $100 bottles of wine, it starts at wine that's $15/litre which is probably pretty much average. So it's probably more like drawing the tax distinction between a Civic, a Prius, and a Rav4.