Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

None of these players are members.

Dube is atleast listed on their website.

https://www.nhlpa.com/the-players/55673/dillon-dube

Whether right or wrong, I bet a lot of NHL players are on these guys side that they should be allowed to play now that they’ve been found not guilty. But of course—-there can’t be a public outpouring of support because of optics.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

Their job is to uphold what is in the CBA, the players cannot be ineligible according to the CBA. every member of the PA is entitled to the same representation.

Yes they can - Bettman has authority to do so, as already outlined earlier in this thread.

It is their job to uphold the CBA, but that is not always black and white - how you go about it, and which hills you choose to die on, matters. The court of public opinion also matters, when the stakes get higher during collective bargaining agreements. Sometimes you have to play the long game, but they seem to always be extremely short-sighted.

[ThatHighGuy]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Like Trudeau?

Imagine being this delusional. Can't imagine your takes on the Flames

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

Their job is to uphold what is in the CBA, the players cannot be ineligible according to the CBA. every member of the PA is entitled to the same representation.

Nothing in the CBA says that they can't be suspended or banned if the commissioner decides their conduct merits it.

If Bettman banned Lucic would anyone have an issue?

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

CBC had some legal commentators this morning - they do identify some problematic areas of the decision. For example, the judge refused to consider the cumulative effect of the sheer number of (uninvited) men in the room. She treated each act as a separate incident with a separate guy without looking at the situation as a whole. And the effect that would have on the statements of consent.

There are potentially grounds for the Crown to appeal. The question is whether the Crown feels that it is likely to get a conviction based on how this case went. The Crown also needs to consider how going through this process again might impact EM. It really frustrates me that the issue of the power imbalance between one young woman and a room full of physically intimidating young men wasn't specifically addressed by the Court. I do think the prosecution could have presented that aspect of the case better.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

There are potentially grounds for the Crown to appeal. The question is whether the Crown feels that it is likely to get a conviction based on how this case went. The Crown also needs to consider how going through this process again might impact EM. It really frustrates me that the issue of the power imbalance between one young woman and a room full of physically intimidating young men wasn't specifically addressed by the Court. I do think the prosecution could have presented that aspect of the case better.

Did the judge saying she ignored the impact of the 5 guys or just omit it from the decision?

[TheIronMaiden]

Just because the the verdict was not guilty does not mean that there were no consequences.

1. The players experienced severe financial impacts, both including loss of work and paying for extremely high profile lawyers
2. The players are now on a national, and somewhat international record as potential sex offenders
3. There was a nation wide conversation about consent, especially as it relates to high profile athletes.
4. None of the players pose a risk as repeat offenders. They're suffered loss to your (extremely public) reputation and money, a not guilty charge will not embolden them to commit more crimes.

While this result is surely devastating for EM and her family she has kept her anonymity and has shared here story and found sympathy from millions.

The whole thing sucks, time to learn the lesson and move on.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Just because the the verdict was not guilty does not mean that there were no consequences.

1. The players experienced severe financial impacts, both including loss of work and paying for extremely high profile lawyers
2. The players are now on a national, and somewhat international record as potential sex offenders
3. There was a nation wide conversation about consent, especially as it relates to high profile athletes.
4. None of the players pose a risk as repeat offenders. They're suffered loss to your (extremely public) reputation and money, a not guilty charge will not embolden them to commit more crimes.

While this result is surely devastating for EM and her family she has kept her anonymity and has shared here story and found sympathy from millions.

The whole thing sucks, time to learn the lesson and move on.

I agree. As much as this is awful for EM and regardless of what actually happened that night, this will likely spur some kind of change in the behaviour of athletes (or potentially men in general). These guys aren't going to jail, but the consequences of their behaviour has been disastrous for their careers.

Michael McLeod and Hart have some chance at working their way back to the NHL, but I'd be shocked if any of the rest do.

[Huntingwhale]

Epic midafternoon drunken rant by questionmotives. One of the best suicide bans I've seen in a while.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by fotze2

Did the judge saying she ignored the impact of the 5 guys or just omit it from the decision?

The judge said it. She said she wasn't treating it as a "group rape". So it ended up being 5 mini trials on 5 separate instances. Which to me ignores reality. BTW, there were more than 5 guys in the room. Only 5 were charged.

This may also have been a flaw in how the Crown charged and proceeded though.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Like Trudeau?

Dude, go off line. Delete Facebook, delete tiktok, Instagram everything. For a "but Trudeau!" Post to come out of left field like that shows how badly you need to get off social media

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Dube is atleast listed on their website.

https://www.nhlpa.com/the-players/55673/dillon-dube

Whether right or wrong, I bet a lot of NHL players are on these guys side that they should be allowed to play now that they’ve been found not guilty. But of course—-there can’t be a public outpouring of support because of optics.

I could see alot of players wondering what would happen to their career if they were in a situation where they might be wrongly accused by someone and that they would want to be able to continue their career if found not guilty.

That has happened before. Blackmail attempts ect or purposely vindictive false accusations to ruin a career. Not saying the junior team incident was that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I could see alot of players wondering what would happen to their career if they were in a situation where they might be wrongly accused by someone and that they would want to be able to continue their career if found not guilty.

That has happened before. Blackmail attempts ect or purposely vindictive false accusations to ruin a career. Not saying the junior team incident was that.

Name three.

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Name three.

1) Jaromir Jagr - https://thehockeynews.com/news/news/...-less-about-it
2) Aziz Ansari - https://www.npr.org/2018/01/16/57842...on-aziz-ansari
3) Matt Arizia - https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...araiza-dropped
4) Trevor Bauer - https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...-fraud-arizona
5) Duke Lacrosse team - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/duke-la...rystal-mangum/

Here are 5 of them.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

A guy just got fired for being caught in an affair. An idiot who "debated" Mehdi Hasan and called himself an authoritarian got fired because he looked dumb. A lawyer in town was forced to resign from his firm because he sent a crude and distasteful non-work email that got into the public eye. People are fired over social media posts all the time. All of these acts were legal.

And despite the fact they were acquitted, one of the parties says she was not "down".

And to add to that, the burden of proof in a grievance arbitration is balance of probabilities and the players need to prove not only consent but that their actions were not immoral or harmful to the league. Good luck.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

1) Jaromir Jagr - https://thehockeynews.com/news/news/...-less-about-it
2) Aziz Ansari - https://www.npr.org/2018/01/16/57842...on-aziz-ansari
3) Matt Arizia - https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...araiza-dropped
4) Trevor Bauer - https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...-fraud-arizona
5) Duke Lacrosse team - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/duke-la...rystal-mangum/

Here are 5 of them.

These instances are exceedingly rare when we know millions of women in North America have been sexually assaulted (and most never report).

https://womenonguard.com/statistics/sexual-assault/

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Like Trudeau?

Like... the steak knife company?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

Like... the steak knife company?

F Trudeau Knives!

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

J
None of the players pose a risk as repeat offenders.

I'm not sure I agree with this.

They've shown the type of morals they possess, and it's not a certainty these types of men won't get involved in another situation, especially if fuelled by drink.

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Dube is atleast listed on their website.

https://www.nhlpa.com/the-players/55673/dillon-dube

Whether right or wrong, I bet a lot of NHL players are on these guys side that they should be allowed to play now that they’ve been found not guilty. But of course—-there can’t be a public outpouring of support because of optics.

Given the entitlement young hockey players seem to have, I wonder how many NHL players remember shady sexual experiences with young women they were involved with and are relieved that the players were not found guilty.