Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I continually find it very difficult to support the NHLPA, or even find find their positions remotely acceptable or agreeable.

There is no value in their position, there's no 'win' to fight for. It isn't about protecting jobs, because if they get their jobs back, others will be displaced (it's a net zero in that regard). All they are accomplishing is to antagonize fans, and place themselves on the wrong side of public opinion.

They are just a strange union. Against protective gear requirements by teams, defending players who injure other players, etc.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It's their job though.

It is. However it is also possible to say that although they support their members, odious and reprehensible conduct is not tolerated in a civil society and they would expect that better actions could have been taken by all involved. To that extent they recognize that "not guilty" does not mean "innocent", and they are fine with a .... pause.

[Vedder]

Originally Posted by troutman

Do they want to be booed every time they touch the puck for the rest of their careers? I think not.

These guys aren’t walking from millions in future career earnings to avoid getting booed.

Would also guess there will be some blowback initially, but would be surprised if widespread booing is sustained, especially in non-Canadian cities.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They are just a strange union. Against protective gear requirements by teams, defending players who injure other players, etc.

Very true.

There are unions that go to great lengths to protect incompetent members – something I'm not fond of but can understand. This is a union that actually protects its members for deliberately injuring other members, and does not appear to care about the victims even though they are members in equally good standing.

I wonder how much of it is that the PA has chosen to hire counsel whose default position is, ‘Be a pit bull. Litigate all the things!’

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Vedder

These guys aren’t walking from millions in future career earnings to avoid getting booed.

Would also guess there will be some blowback initially, but would be surprised if widespread booing is sustained, especially in non-Canadian cities.

Which of these players can legit come back and play in NHL? They were all lower tier NHLers who haven't played in 1.5 years.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Which of these players can legit come back and play in NHL? They were all lower tier NHLers who haven't played in 1.5 years.

Hopefully none of them.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

NHLPA response:

Case is still eligible for appeal, so until that is no longer the case, hard to see the NHL wanting a side show they can avoid.

[GullFoss]

Even if NHL is forced to clear them, it's hard to see a path forward. I could envision a scenario where 1-2 players might get a tryout, which allows NHL to avoid collusion charge. Those players will then get cut before the end of training camp and that will be the end of it.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by troutman

Do they want to be booed every time they touch the puck for the rest of their careers? I think not.

If any of them come out of this as strong, genuine, and vocal advocates against this type of hockey culture then there could be a redemption arc, but they would have to take some verbal abuse regardless.

[MegaErtz]

Genuine question - what if the players charged and found not guilty were superstars? How much easier of a path back to the NHL would they have?

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Genuine question - what if the players charged and found not guilty were superstars? How much easier of a path back to the NHL would they have?

A team would sign them the day after the NHL cleared them.

[GullFoss]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/651...shared_article

The collective bargaining agreement affords NHL commissioner Gary Bettman considerable power to punish players for off-ice conduct deemed harmful to the league. That includes actions that don’t result in criminal convictions. Article 18-A grants Bettman the ability to expel, suspend, fine or even cancel the contracts of players following a league investigation and hearing (where the player and NHL Players’ Association are permitted to present evidence, testimony and argument in the player’s defense).

[bettercallbettman]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

A team would sign them the day after the NHL cleared them.

While not a superstar, Hart will get a look.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

So if I'm ever accused of a serious crime, I should opt for trial by jury, and then if I don't like the jury I get, just have my lawyers make fun of someone on the jury so I get a trial by judge instead?

Think that’s the idea.

Or get your lawyer to pick someone for the jury who reaaaallllyy wants to get out of jury duty.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Some of the stuff I've seen people do and unions fight to have them avoid penalties for is beyond disturbing, like turn your stomach bad stuff, they don't care at all about right or wrong. sometimes seems they just want to fight against anything "the employer" does on principle

It’s called justifying their existence.

So they can keep collecting dues.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Genuine question - what if the players charged and found not guilty were superstars? How much easier of a path back to the NHL would they have?

Deshaun Watson trajectory for sure.

The biggest issue they have is their talent isn't enough to overcome the image hit to the brand.

Carter Hart likely has the best chance.

Not saying it's right.

[cracher]

Does Bettman/18-A have any teeth?

If all parties are down, there is nothing wrong with running a train or spanking. The days of issuing a schedule of acceptable activities in the bedroom are long, long gone and I cannot fathom this being in the jurisdiction of an employer.

[flamesfan1297]

Still no response or comment from Rick Westhead, I'm interested in hearing what he has to say after the Not Guilty verdict. He hasn't even mentioned that the verdict is Not Guilty, which suprises me seeing as how involved/interested he was in this case. I'm sure it didn't go the way he was expecting or hoping

[FusionX]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

This thread sure took a turn.

Who really knows what happened that night. None of us were there.

Well, actually, we do know, and in uncomfortably explicit description as well.

What the court had to do was take that information and determine if what happened that night was legally right or wrong, which it did.

I didn't use the word justice as regardless of the outcome, justice was never truly going to be done. Not for EM, not for the players, not for the court of public opinion.

There was always going to be a moral component to the situation, with people on either side, from a few fairly extreme opinions on either end, to most others in the mushy middle that lean one way or the other. I certainly lean towards the belief that what occurred that night was morally not ok, with the onus on the group of young men/boys who perpetuated it to not have done so, legal or not.

However, as some others have pointed out, I do think there needs to be more pressure and spotlight on the leaders, namely Hockey Canada, to do better in order to put these young men/boys in positions to succeed. I understand they're 17, 18, but set curfews, ensure they remain sober, impress on them that it is not only their on-ice talents that matter. Do something to help these young men/boys become the influences and leaders you want them to be.

IMO, if that can happen, not necessarily justice, but hopefully some positive can come from this.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Is this grounds for appeal

I would think so. Although out of my lane, I believe common errors of law have to do with rulings on the admissibility of certain evidence.